How much support is 'normal' when GCSE results are way below expected?

[ballstoit]

I'm feeling pretty shocked at the complete lack of 'aftercare' from DDs secondary school and am just wondering if this is the norm.

She has had an awful few years following a traumatic loss on her Dad's side of the family and a period of really unpleasant bullying at school. Is now receiving support from a CAMHS mental health nurse after having a crisis earlier this year. Unsurprisingly, her results are miles away from what she was predicted earlier in the year and both of the sixth forms she had offers from (including the sixth form of the secondary she attended) have declined her.

On results day, she was informed, very bluntly, that her results were not good enough for the school's sixth form and offered a call from a careers advisor. The careers advisor called yesterday and suggested the names of some colleges that might have BTEC courses she could get on to. Call lasted about 3 minutes.

I don't know what the norm is in terms of support post 16 but I am a bit surprised that there seems to be no contact at all to check on well-being or whether any support is needed. As a primary senior leader, I have offered more support to adult staff who are leaving that my child has received from her school. Are my expectations too high? Or is a better level of post exam support a reasonable expectation? I'm interested to hear others' experiences.

We went to the 6th form evening and it was made clear to us that my son was unlikely to achieve the grades he needed to stay on at school. We had looked at alternatives and he was interviewed at a local college and accepted for an intermediate BTech. Then he did the higher level one and decided to go to university. It was a longer route, but worth while. He’d also, since the age of 16, been working part time and they wanted him to join their management programme. I’m glad he didn’t.

I didn’t expect the school to do anything other than they did, which was to say that, based on the predictions, he was unlikely to get enough of the grades needed to continue. We researched other options ourselves.

Unsurprisingly, her results are miles away from what she was predicted

If you knew that she was unlikely to get the grades required, you as a family should have spent the time since May/June researching other options-if she can’t stay at her current school, there is little they can do to help. What other colleges are available locally? If you don’t know that, why not?!

"Unsurprisingly her results were miles away from what she was predicted earlier in the year."

So in anticipation of this, what were you/family doing to ensure a plan B and plan C?

It would be 'the pits' if someone asked you to be all hands on deck during your annual leave though.

Unless teachers are employed to work on results day (which they're not) you can't expect them to.

A child underperforming isn't a scenario when all leave is cancelled like the police in a terrorist incident.

PP have explained that being a form tutor doesn't necessarily qualify you to know how to advise about FE destinations anyway. This if for parents to support children with.

A child’s biggest influences are parents and teachers. When they come and see me I have to unpick a lot of the messages they may have received.

Some teachers and parents give great advice. I think that pre GCSE exam season the post 16 options could be discussed. I know that many do. But I think that many pupils aren’t ready to think about a world without school/ sixth form. They think that’ll it’ll be ok and they hope for the best. Not expecting the cliff face.

I don’t expect parents or teachers to know about post 16 options but perhaps signposting would be good. Get the message across to go look see what’s out there.

A lot I see have only considered A levels. And they are v attached to this idea. When I mention BTEC or apprenticeships then it can be a bit of a battle.

In all honestly I think teachers should be paid more but with more expectations attached. Principally that certain key dates in the academic calendar are expected to be covered by staff even if on some kind of rota system. This also includes parents evenings where my child regularly has teachers who are just missing on the night.

Results day doesn’t equate to a terrorist attack but it is a key date which is known in advance and it falls towards the end of an extended holiday period. Teachers are not careers experts but I would expect form tutors to have some knowledge of career pathways and some basic training in pastoral care.

As a society I think we need to better understand the pastoral needs of young people and take steps to support them. The OP is not alone to have a child who is struggling. If I were a teacher I wouldn’t think an expectation of being on hand to point a small number of pupils for whom I had had pastoral responsibility and oversight for a year or more on a known date during an extended holiday period as unreasonable. I would want to be available to support them as best I could.

This also includes parents evenings where my child regularly has teachers who are just missing on the night.

Teachers are paid for, and expected to attend parents evenings. If they're not there, presumably they are ill.

Teachers are not careers experts but I would expect form tutors to have some knowledge of career pathways and some basic training in pastoral care.

Why? That's what the careers officer is for. Also, no one would ever want to be a Y11/Y13 tutor if they thought they'd get dragged in during the holidays while their Y7 tutor colleague got to go to Benidorm instead.

And then you'd have all the Y11 tutors turn up on the day and mill around waiting in case one of their tutees misses their offers and hasn't been organised enough to have a back-up plan in advance and hasn't got parents who can go on a college website and look stuff up and realises this on results day. Waste of everyone's time.

Career paths are all (or should be) discussed in advance in y9/10/11.
It is up to the parents & student to have backup plans.
Maybe have the careers person around on results day, but it shouldn't need every form tutor to be there.

There are already additional expectations attached to a standard teaching contract beyond standard school hours (which might not be commonly known) and unfortunately you can't add extra for one year only to those staff whose current tutor group have reached year 11. Many tutors and subject teachers will have been present and supportive on results day voluntarily, and will be using their 'extended holiday' to analyse the data and complete other unpaid preparation.

It's an issue of an individual school if they schedule Parents' Evening at a time / on a day when some staff aren't working, but with part time contracts, you can have any number of commitments (including another job) during non-working hours. You can't expect teachers to be more flexible than the average worker because you want to benefit from their expertise and have them solve every one of society's problems.

Pastoral care is far bigger than steps into further education and careers guidance will have been given. Colleges and other providers are available to prospective students and provisional plans should really have been considered by families before results day.

That's normal. They would have spent the last year having careers meetings, making choices, offering info about pathways etc. She should now be looking forward to college and will need to be proactive about her next steps. The school has done all it can now.

I'm still staggered at OP's shock, lack of expectation. You've known about this for years. What were the mocks? Why didn't you plan for back up plans? This blame game is really irritating.

tbh I don’t know why FE isn’t considered before sixth form. There’s much more support at college. Access to mental health/ counsellors/ learning coaches, careers, learning support and pastoral - all easily accessible.

The colleges near me are all advertising drop in sessions starting from results day. Having worked at one I know the tutors, career advisers and student support will all be there to help. Surprised if this isn’t so in OPs area.

It’s good there are some teachers who go above what is expected. I’m afraid in my experience we have had lots who have done the absolute minimum over a prolonged period.

@Promwasgreat You'd happily give up your annual leave on the off chance someone needed you.... Sure.

This really isn't a tutors job. This is where parents step up, and if parents don't, students sort it themselves. There comes a point where you cannot blame schools any longer. We are not responsible for solving all societal problems.

So you want people who aren't obliged to do and give more than is on offer and feel entitled to this.

But 'doing the absolute minimum' here really seems to apply more to the parents who think their DC's underperformance (which also might be a result of absolute minimum vs. going above and beyond) should be dealt with on their behalf.

Schools do promote their own sixth form and A levels. There does need to be more breadth of options shown ( by external speakers or signposting).

On results day I interviewed various applicants with parents. One a uni lecturer who was confused by the system. Another secondary teacher also unsure if options for their own child. Also an applicant who was told sixth form wouldn’t be a problem. Till results day when they’re told there’s no
place for you.

I think it would be great if schools could say to
pupils/ parents go research yourself. And parents do need to explore plan B/C so there isnt this sudden void in what to do next.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I said from the outset that teachers should be paid more (as they want to be) but with the expectation that they have slightly different contractual obligations. Say including secondary teachers being available once every three years for exam results day (I said rotational but that’s what I was thinking).

The exam system in England is pretty brutal and young people face these exams at an earlier stage than in other countries. As such they are less developed emotionally.

In an ideal world I’d like schools to be holistic and to recognise that their responses to children and young people for who face challenges (for whatever reason) really impact on the morale and self esteem of the young people involved and that that can feed through longer term. I am not English and I find the system daunting navigating it as an adult. As a family we have never imposed on teachers at all though.

I didn’t say that. I said teachers should be paid more with slightly different leave arrangements.

I think schools build relationships with their pupils and that it can end very harshly which is hard for pupils going forward. They are only young and not up to speed on the ins and outs of teachers’ contacts. They just feel rejection.

It's not just the exam day though is it. If you're wanting expertise on colleges etc, teachers need time to learn that and it's pretty inefficient to learn a load of stuff we may never need every 3 years.

Schools are holistic. They work bloody hard for the children. They support children in ways you wouldn't even know. Post exams and next steps really is not our job. Next steps need to be shared with parents to check logistics etc too.

Why is it that whenever a parent comes up against a situation where they might have to find out some information or support their kid in some way there's always someone who pipes up and says that teachers should step in and do it for them?

With the greatest respect you have no idea what I know.

I don’t think a phone call or email to this girl’s family from the school to check she is okay and has her next steps in place is too much and I stand by that.

With the greatest respect you have no idea what I know.

And you don't appear to know that every societal ill is being put onto schools to solve. Kids not knowing what they want to do after their GCSE results is just the latest in an extremely long list.

I'll add it below 'potty training', 'sign language', 'resilience', 'being safe around dogs' and the rest of them.

I had a very different experience . My Ds got good results but not the ones for sixth form .

He didn’t have a plan B as he refused to entertain one ( he has Asd )

so his tutor gave him the emotional support he needed - careers gave him advice on his options.

He came home - I found some courses which I thought would be of interest to him so he applied online .

His tutor has emailed me and offered support if we need it .

sometimes it isn’t about a one person approach .

I agree teachers are not careers advisors . They should be at the college So focus on options there . If she got 4+ for English and maths should be able to go in at level 3.

can I also add my Ds was in a very difficult place prior and during exams even completing the exams can be a huge achievement even without the results they want .

Alongside teeth cleaning, checking for headlice, suncream application, driving lessons and mortgage applications!