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Secondary education

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Original poster

How much support is 'normal' when GCSE results are way below expected?

75 replies

ballstoit · 26/08/2023 16:59

I'm feeling pretty shocked at the complete lack of 'aftercare' from DDs secondary school and am just wondering if this is the norm.

She has had an awful few years following a traumatic loss on her Dad's side of the family and a period of really unpleasant bullying at school. Is now receiving support from a CAMHS mental health nurse after having a crisis earlier this year. Unsurprisingly, her results are miles away from what she was predicted earlier in the year and both of the sixth forms she had offers from (including the sixth form of the secondary she attended) have declined her.

On results day, she was informed, very bluntly, that her results were not good enough for the school's sixth form and offered a call from a careers advisor. The careers advisor called yesterday and suggested the names of some colleges that might have BTEC courses she could get on to. Call lasted about 3 minutes.

I don't know what the norm is in terms of support post 16 but I am a bit surprised that there seems to be no contact at all to check on well-being or whether any support is needed. As a primary senior leader, I have offered more support to adult staff who are leaving that my child has received from her school. Are my expectations too high? Or is a better level of post exam support a reasonable expectation? I'm interested to hear others' experiences.

OP posts:
Hestia2023 · 26/08/2023 18:23

Our school doesn’t employ a careers advisor (one of the many roles the school has had to lose to save money).

The local council were offering an advice day for any students who didn’t have a post-16 place arranged, so staff were directing students to go there, for anyone who didn’t get the grades for 6th form.

However, students had already been given guidance in years 10 and 11 about their post-16 options - and told to have a plan A and Plan B in case they didn’t get the grades for A Levels.
By GCSE results day it’s a bit late to be thinking about this….

Whilst it would be nice if the secondary school could offer this kind of support after GCSEs, I doubt many schools have the staff to do it. Schools are underfunded and understaffed already.

You may find your local council has a careers advice service? Your local FE college should also be able to offer advice, and may have options to resit some exams.

Temporaryname158 · 26/08/2023 18:23

@purplewolfie everyone at ours including myself is still off. Some senior managers for 7 weeks! Our whole place pretty much shuts down apart from a skeleton staff. I think the OP will certainly have a lot of fE assistance from the 4th but can apply online to courses in advance of then in case it is a college like mine with few staff in

Rummikub · 26/08/2023 18:29

I’ve been in all summer!

@ballstoit worth calling or dropping into the site. Have a look at the course list on line.

What grades did your dd get in her GCSEs and what was her original plan for sixth form?

purplewolfie · 26/08/2023 18:30

@Temporaryname158 wow! We start induction on the 4th! There are quite a few FE colleges in my area though, so perhaps we're all trying to beat the competition 😁

Bluevelvetsofa · 26/08/2023 18:34

My son was told he wouldn’t get the grades for 6th form and no other advice was offered. He didn’t get good grades, but went to college, did B Tech and thrn went to university.

RagzRebooted · 26/08/2023 18:35

I wouldn't expect much from the school, to be honest. If she's not staying on, her time there is done. She isn't their responsibility any more. As blunt as that sounds.
My son's girlfriend did much worse than expected, but the college she is going to were great. They had her in for enrolment anyway and did a little maths test (she's bright just falls apart in exams) and reassured her they would support her to retake her maths and that she could still do the level 3 course she wanted.

Porx · 26/08/2023 18:44

Thisismynewname123 · 26/08/2023 17:42

@DrFosterWentToGloucester23 what happens with students who want a teacher's opinion on their paper before deciding whether to request a re-mark?

Whatever they 'want', they will have to wait until the subject teacher is working to even request their help.

The majority will be more than happy to assist with their expertise, having done their best and wanting the best for pupils they've taught, but this will be additional work being done really as a courtesy.

Thisismynewname123 · 26/08/2023 18:47

@Porx I understand that, but I was advised on the process by the school examinations officer to request the papers as dd got 2 grades below predicted. Other subject teachers did respond to emails last week, but I understand this teacher may not be

Hercisback · 26/08/2023 18:50

What do you actually expect?

This is definitely a parents job and time to step up and support. Schools cannot be responsible for everything.

DrFosterWentToGloucester23 · 26/08/2023 18:51

@Thisismynewname123
School will likely contact students who they think may benefit from a remark (e.g those 1/2 marks off the grade above) They cannot ask for a remark without the student’s permission as marks (and, therefore, grades) can go up and down.

You are able to request a remark regardless of what school thinks but school may not pay for it (say, if you are 5 marks off the grade above) The cost for a remark in this instance is about £40 per paper (not subject)

As a PP said, the deadline is mid September so there is time to email teachers or pop in for a chat in the new term.

Aworldofmyown · 26/08/2023 19:23

In our case we needed a specific question answered - was an easy one for them. If they had answered it the 6th form would have allowed my child to attend.
As it was we gave up and received a letter in the post (I kid you not, they posted it!!) Advising us to appeal this grade, we recieved the letter 2 days before the deadline.
We appealed, the grade was upped, but by then plan b was already under way and confidence knocked.
The tutor emailed 3 months later to asked if his question was answered!!

mrsdolittle · 26/08/2023 19:29

I work at a large sixth form college and we have a lot of students who have failed to get into their school sixth form. We bend over backwards to help them, though it does depend what their grades were to a degree (we don't offer a full range of GCSEs for example only really Maths and English and a few level 2 vocational courses).

I'm sorry you have had such experience but I don't think it's unusual. As mentioned previously your dd is no longer the school's responsibility. I would urge you to look at FE colleges and dedicated sixth form colleges in your area that offer BTECs and other vocational courses which might suit your dd better

Thisismynewname123 · 26/08/2023 19:57

@DrFosterWentToGloucester23 she was 2 marks off an 8, predicted a 9. We have already got hold of the paper so I want the teacher's opinion on if it's a marking discrepancy or she just under performed. Other teachers were available Thursday and Friday so I got the impression they had been asked to be available. It's no problem. It doesn't affect her next stage. We're just being impatient because it was a particular disappointment.

Original poster
ballstoit · 26/08/2023 19:58

We are sorting an alternative and it's reassuring to hear that there is time to do that, thank you.

Her results were well below her mock grades and were not what we expected - it wasn't a surprise that she didn't get what she's capable of but we didn't expect her to drop this far from her mock grades.

I'm really aware that schools are under tough financial pressure but feel sad for students who don't have the support that DD has from their families - they must feel totally adrift.

OP posts:
coribells · 26/08/2023 20:04

To be honest the support is non existent. Encourage your daughter to think about BTECs , both my sons went this route and thrived. My older DS has just graduated university with a 1st , younger one with autism /adhd loves college and can't wait for summer holdiays to end !

Rummikub · 26/08/2023 20:17

For clarification were the grades at least grade 4 or were they below that?

There’s a few options available and she could give herself a nice year as well settling into college environment.

Charley50 · 26/08/2023 21:55

@Temporaryname158 - where's your college? I've worked in a few FE colleges in London and they all have all staff back a few days or at least a day before GCSE results, to start enrolment.

OP, if DD got grade 4+ in English language and Maths she won't need to retake those and can go onto a L2 or 3 BTEC at college. Or if lower grades she might need to resit Maths and English plus do a BTEC.

Temporaryname158 · 26/08/2023 23:08

@Charley50 id rather not say but no first year courses start until the third week of September so we have plenty of time and we are a specialist subject college and so a lot of apprenticeships were full prior to summer break meaning only first year full timers are left to be dealt with really. Those sent offers prior to summer who got their grades will automatically therefore have a place leaving only a small number of places to arrange for those who didn’t.

MumApril1990 · 27/08/2023 00:13

We just got handed results in n envelope and nothing more was said by school. What support are you providing?

Promwasgreat · 27/08/2023 08:09

I understand what the OP means. Yes we can tell pupils to have plans B, C, D etc but they still have their hearts set on plan A and there will always be surprise drops in grades too.

The OP’s daughter has spent much of the last five years at her school, with her teachers and her friends. She’s only 16 and is struggling at the moment. I think the system is very tough on some children. Like they’ve been sacked from work except it’s school.

I agree teachers need time off etc but at my work there are a few dates of the year where it’s all hands to the pump and I don’t think it would be the pits to ask a form tutor to spend a few hours of one day a year phoning the families of the children in their form who haven’t made the cut and talking things through with them (or triaging on to someone else). This will be the OP’s daughter’s last memory of her school and I think that’s hard for her.

Hercisback · 27/08/2023 09:02

As a Year 11 form tutor I think you're massively over estimating my knowledge of options. I know what my school offers and where the local colleges are. The rest is on Google which parents and students all have access to.

TeenDivided · 27/08/2023 09:33

Bluevelvetsofa · 26/08/2023 18:34

My son was told he wouldn’t get the grades for 6th form and no other advice was offered. He didn’t get good grades, but went to college, did B Tech and thrn went to university.

I am confused by comments like this.

I thought all schools had a duty to make knowledge of options (A levels, BTECs, Apprenticeships) available to students? Do they not all do this?

At DD's school (in an area where schools don't have 6th forms) they have a session on options, and then an afternoon where all the local providers, (including the armed forces) come in and you can chat to them.

Then the school pushes out collated info on college open days, and application deadlines. There is a careers advisor you can book a slot with. Everyone has an interview with a member of the SLT to make sure they have a plan in place and application done.

I thought this was standard.

However I agree the school's remit is upfront. If you get to results day without a suitable plan A/B/C then that's not their fault.

Hestia2023 · 27/08/2023 09:56

Promwasgreat · 27/08/2023 08:09

I understand what the OP means. Yes we can tell pupils to have plans B, C, D etc but they still have their hearts set on plan A and there will always be surprise drops in grades too.

The OP’s daughter has spent much of the last five years at her school, with her teachers and her friends. She’s only 16 and is struggling at the moment. I think the system is very tough on some children. Like they’ve been sacked from work except it’s school.

I agree teachers need time off etc but at my work there are a few dates of the year where it’s all hands to the pump and I don’t think it would be the pits to ask a form tutor to spend a few hours of one day a year phoning the families of the children in their form who haven’t made the cut and talking things through with them (or triaging on to someone else). This will be the OP’s daughter’s last memory of her school and I think that’s hard for her.

Form Tutors are teachers, they are not careers advisors. Being able to advise someone on what courses they can do in their local area, with the grades they have, taking into account their personal interests, actually takes a lot of detailed knowledge.

In my opinion this is a parent’s role. This is the next stage in your child’s education, you need to have a plan. I didn’t expect my DCs primary school teacher to help me choose their secondary school, how is this any different? I am always surprised by the number of parents that assume the school will sort this out.

There is a huge amount of information online. If a parent can’t help then the local authority can offer support.

In any case if a 16/17 year old child is NEET (not in education, employment or training) then it is the the LA who has a responsibility to follow this up and try to help them to find something suitable.

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2023 10:16

I don’t think it would be the pits to ask a form tutor to spend a few hours of one day a year phoning the families of the children in their form who haven’t made the cut and talking things through with them

Schools cannot direct teachers to work during the holidays.

And as a pp mentioned, form tutors would be fuck-all use anyway.. I’m a maths teacher, if you want to talk to me about doing maths A-level, sure. If you want to know about the vocational qualifications available at the local college, then I’d be suggesting that you talk to the local college.

BungleandGeorge · 27/08/2023 10:29

Has she had much to do with the pastoral staff? I can understand why you’re upset that nobody really seems to care. Perhaps a move elsewhere will end up being a good thing

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