4 a-levels and an EPQ?

[imip]

Would schools even let this happen? Dd is autistic and v rigid about doing this. I think the 4 a-levels is ok or 3 a-levels and and EPQ, but she is determined! Would a sixth form allow this?

For reference she has had a lot of mental health crises, including SH, anorexia and suicide attempt. Has been an inpatient. Missed most of y10 completing her GCSEs in one year this year and is now moving to a different sixth form. She has seven 9s, two 8s and one 6. In y10 they allowed her to study from home and she sat one GCSE early and got a 9.

I really would have thought that no school would allow this. Does anyone have experience that it has been allowed?

At least 4 x A levels gives you the advantage of four goes to get the three grades you need

It doesn't though. The hours spent on whatever the weakest subject turns out to be would be far better spent on getting a couple of the other two an grade higher.

Remember Astar A A B would probably translate to Astar Astar Astar if the B subject was dropped. That's Cambridge instead of Warwick.

Yes, I did add the caveat "assuming you can manage the workload" but perhaps didn't make clear that I meant assuming you are heading for good grades in all four. DD hasn't had her predictions yet but based on AS results they might be two or three Astars and the other one or two A. The highest standard offer she is considering is AstarAA. So having four subjects where she should get an A and could get an Astar might be useful, given the vagaries of exam papers / marking / grade distributions etc. I don't think it's possible to guarantee an Astar, however hard you work, there's too much luck involved. So giving yourself four good chances to get one might be helpful. If she has a disaster in a particular paper, she is still in with a shout.

If it were me I'd suck up the extra stress of having to do well in every exam paper, and give up the EPQ and an A level so that I could spend more time lazing about. But she loves all her subjects and wants to see how it goes in Y13.

She did actually have a disaster in an exam (not that I call 8 a disaster) but it seemed like her only ‘guaranteed’ 9 that on mocks she was consistently getting full marks for ended up as an 8.

Though I am of the thought that 3 is enough, I don’t think it will work in this case, but I really appreciate everyones (well, almost everyones) perspective on this.

I knew 4 a levels were a thing and 3 and an EPQ a thing, but not that you could do both. I get the maths and FM as I have a younger child doing both for GCSE and DD was also going to do this. Otherwise, it does seem an overload. Where I come from, you do five subjects in your final year - three seems very narrow, particularly if you fall out of love for one over the course of two years.

An EPQ can make an interview, I've seen that happen. A child who has been catching up academically all through school did an amazing EPQ on a niche subject connected to his eventual uni application, got an interviewer who was a specialist in the niche subject, and they loved him. I am a big fan of EPQs and love that your dd wants to do a historical one.

However, all the alarm bells are ringing here. I know very little about autism but can you explain what her thinking is here - i understandthat it's rigid, but rigid about what? She appears to be trying to do an IB-type breadth of subjects at A-level depth. Does she have a goal, as in a university course she wants to do in the future? Does she play board games at all - does she understand the importance of strategy and choices, that you don't just gather all the cards of any type, but you decide based on the strengths of your position which types of card to focus on?

It actually makes me wonder if she would do better to do the IB itself. I dont think universities in the UK handle it well but they are presumably getting better at it.

It sounds like a lot. My son’s school have 5 ‘blocks’ for post 16. Most students take 3 Alevels plus one enrichment block, which can be an EPQ but also volunteering, DofE, sport, non exam courses (first aid, sign language etc) They are quite picky about which students can take 4 Alevels - my son is doing sciences, maths, further maths but needed an 8+ in maths at GCSE - they don’t want them struggling, and he was strongly advised to take something undemanding in his 5th block. He’s going to volunteer within school for maths tutoring for younger pupils which will leave him some of that ‘block’ free to study. He has a part time job and lots of extracurricular activities.
I guess your daughter can drop either an Alevel or the EPQ if it’s too much? But it needs to be framed do that doesn’t feel like a failure to her.

Yes, that’s how I framed FM - give it up and concentre on maths and eventually she did and got a 9 for maths. A family friend moved to a level maths without FM so I kept highlighting this. It just needs to be her decision, not mine.

she met the school’s cutoff for 4 levels on enrolment. But the SENCO wasn’t there. I have had a few meetings with them already but obv none over summer. But I think we can come up with a plan with the new school and work on how we frame it with dd.

not sure her school offers IB but at this stage she couldn’t cope with the change. It’s remarkable that she got 10 GCSEs in only one year of school having been off for y10 and with such strong results. I would just prefer her to do 4 a levels rather than 3 and an EPQ, but iIn her way, she would drop the a level.

Hello 👋 Singing. I agree with Titchy. It's the difference between Oxbridge and Warwick. Of course any child can do as many as they like, and as many EPQ's, if that floats your boat.
If they can cope. Like it, want to.
But at what cost? If they can't cope? How can that this thus be best? How can damaging a child's MH be a good idea?

DD's selective sixth form does not permit more than 3 A Levels. The exception is further maths. All start with 4 subjects, do an AS Level in the one at the end of yr 12, then continue with 3 (or 4 if FM). Most do an EPQ.

The logic is that one is better off with 3 good A Levels rather 4 less good, having spread too thin. Works well for the school and the students, approx 20% this year are off to Oxbridge.

I have seen that too @PermanentTemporary with one of my EPQ students. His EP presentation was fascinating and he said that it had been massively helpful in getting an offer from his chosen Cambridge college (he is now about to go into his 3rd year).

Something I didn't push @imip was the presentation part. I know that some Autistic students have found that way more daunting than completing the rest of the project. It carries 10% of the total marks but can also be used to evidence other criteria, so could be as much as 25%. That could possibly be something to discuss with your DD.

Finally, I spoke to my younger DD who is home from uni about this thread. She said that in her first 2 years of university study, the EPQ didn't really make any difference to her. However, in her 3rd year project, knowing how to research, reference, write in a recognised academic style, plan, react to set-backs etc. made a massive difference. She completed everything on time and was praised for her professional approach and writing style. So whilst many universities do not seem bothered by it, the skills it introduces are valuable if students are intending to study further. Furthermore, her older sister was asked about her EPQ in her Cambridge interview, so for all those people who say Oxbridge don't care, that was not our experience.

DS is starting A levels and is starting with 4 plus EPQ plus Welsh Bac. Until this year pupils did either Welsh Bac or EPQ but the college has now said Welsh Bac is compulsory for all as well as those doing EPQ. He will probably drop an A level after AS level. He is doing 4 because he is doing sciences but wants to do Ancient History as well. This is the one he'll probably drop. I think it will be a lot of work but it seems to be the only way he can do the Ancient history and keep his options a bit open.
I'm not sure if I missed it but what are the A Levels in?

@sproutsandparsnips
That sounds a bit mad, compulsory WB even for those doing an EPQ. It may be that he can double up to some extent though - the extended project part of WB is quite EPQish.

Thanks. Pintery, I guess we'll have to see how it goes.

Interesting @Malbecfan . I don’t know so much about the EPQ so that is interesting. She can ‘act’ these things, but it is something that needs to be discussed once she is back at school.

a levels will be art, psych, politics and maths. She has absolutely no idea what she wants to do, which is half of her stress. Careers at school suggested architecture, but she is not keen (if she was, an EPQ would be great for this).

I think the "better three Astars than four A-levels but only two Astars" argument is wrong for many very able students. It assumes that the whole purpose of sixth form is to get someone into the "best" possible university, rather than learning for its own sake, or long term gain.

DD needs to spend more time on her fourth A-level subject than the others, and it is completely irrelevant to what she will study at university. However she enjoys it, and is doing it because she wants to learn. She may be able to put it to use beyond university (and may be able to do more of it at uni depending on which she goes to).

Without the fourth A-level, she would be finding it very easy to keep on top of the work she is set. I'm quite glad that she has something which puts a bit of pressure (but not too much) on her now, while she is still at home with help available when she's struggling with a deadline. Hopefully she will have strategies worked out by the time she goes off to uni (still working on it at the moment).

That’s a lot of work.

How is she at Maths? Is she a natural? One of my kids got 9 at GCSE Maths but struggled hugely with the A Level. It’s a big leap. We had to throw so much money and time at a tutor for them to scrape an A grade. My other child who was a natural sailed through Maths A Level with minimal effort.

Yes, good at maths, needs to try but she got a nine and only had a year to do the course.

she is weaker at art.

in two of her courses dh and I have post grad degrees, so a lot of support at home, if needed.

also, in a perfect work dd would like to study in our home country, so there is less of an emphasis on universities. It’s not like she is wedded to oxbridge or anything like that, she just doesn’t know.