4 a-levels and an EPQ?

[imip]

Would schools even let this happen? Dd is autistic and v rigid about doing this. I think the 4 a-levels is ok or 3 a-levels and and EPQ, but she is determined! Would a sixth form allow this?

For reference she has had a lot of mental health crises, including SH, anorexia and suicide attempt. Has been an inpatient. Missed most of y10 completing her GCSEs in one year this year and is now moving to a different sixth form. She has seven 9s, two 8s and one 6. In y10 they allowed her to study from home and she sat one GCSE early and got a 9.

I really would have thought that no school would allow this. Does anyone have experience that it has been allowed?

You asked whether universities looked favourably on quantity - no they absolutely do not. Maths and further maths are the exception, but any other combination of four is not going to get her extra brownie points from a uni. Given her MH issues I would suggest doing four, one of which is Art, will destroy her.

The English system is predicated towards starting to specialise post 16, whereas for most other countries it's 18 where they specialise.

This is what I don’t understand. If universities don’t value it, why do schools allow it and obv in some. Axes make it compulsory?

is it just a vanity project?

Separate to the A levels/EPQ issue, does DD not have an EHCP? From your posts I would hope she does. EHCPs can include therapies DC wouldn’t otherwise receive, at a greater frequency and without the need to sit on the normal waiting lists.

She does, it has just been finalised. Luckily EHCPs are my day job, but even then it has been very difficult.

In that case therapies, including MH therapies, can be well covered by the EHCP, you don’t need to rely on CAMHS for them any more.

It's only where two of the four are Maths and Further Maths where schools are generally very happy, and that's because if you want to do a Maths degree you need FM. But starting with three that includes maths and FM is too limiting.

Some schools (and parents lets be honest) though do like the bragging rights of showing their average A level tariff score is higher than other schools (often private). But it will almost certainly be at the expense of what's best for the kids.

Picking four, then dropping one at the end of year 12, was very common when A level grades were based on the AS grade at the end of year 12 and the A2 grade at the end of year 13, and starting with four is still offered - but almost always the requirement is to drop one to focus on three to get the best grades.

Firstly, 66.6% of students take 3 A levels and only 4.6% take 4. Of those that take 4 around half take further maths. Universities like to see breadth hence the 3 A levels but some top universities like further maths for subjects like maths, physics and computer science.

The vast majority of state schools offer 3 A levels, further maths comes under different funding I believe. Mine did 4 A levels including further maths but no EPQ as college felt like it could be too much so it was a blanket no if they were doing 4. Ds completed all his work set by college in his free periods which was around 5 hours a week. But that wasn't the norm. He did get 4 A stars and excelled at maths/fm.

Timetable wise there is room to do 5 A levels and the only student who did that is now studying at MIT in the US. It isn't about how much contact time they have in college but also the homework workload. I would ask college how much they expect time wise to be spent outside of college as a guide.

Workload is generally 5-6 hours taught per subject, plus the same in self directed learning. So for four subjects that would be 44 hours a week. Plus another 5 hours a week for the EPQ. Is 50 hours a week (in reality with Art it'll be much more) something your dd can cope with given the severity of her MH?

School (quite rightly) felt they were unable to provide the right level of MH support and the offer is based on her continuing with CAMHS.

in reality, I would rather her do a levels part time over three years. I did manage to keep her off for almost a year and she condensed her GCSEs into one year getting very strong marks. But she isn’t in the best frame of mind at all. She is not also happy she missed that year of school.

I would prefer her to do a fourth a level than an EPQ because she is not so good at making decisions and I think the EPQ will be stressful. And I would prefer her not to do art. But she needs agency - I can only guide her. Dd is clever and a good masker - strong results and everyone things she is capable and ‘better’. I have been through the mill with social workers and I also need to ensure that I am not telling her what to do (the last few years have really been horrible).

I am really grateful for all your comments - it’s helping me get to a position where I comfortable with formulating a good plan and also being able to work with her new school with more information about the subject.

It sounds like the EHCP isn’t good enough. It should be based on what DD reasonably requires, not on what the school can deliver. Therapeutic provision in F can be far in excess of what is otherwise typically available via CAMHS, even if CAMHS deliver part of the provision. If the SEP can’t be delivered in school it can be via a PB.

I think dropping Art and doing the EPQ (if she's creative she could produce an artefact which might appeal rather than an essay?) would be far less stressful than doing four including Art and not doing the EPQ. The workload would be far less and maybe manageable.

I'm seriously struggling to understand your attitude. Because she's so rigid, talking to her now, gently, suggesting, sowing the seed, encouraging, pleading for her to consider...., seems so much more sensible than just being resigned to series MH issues, and giving up your job. I'm struggling ti understand why you are only reactive, not preventative.

The truth is many (not all) Oxbridge, Durham, Imperial etc only care if you get 3x A * . You want dd to get 3 x A star.

Why on earth do you do more. When many (not all) don't care. Great if you want to do 4. Great if you want to do EPQ.

But seriously, for most, it's just not required.

And your dd is clearly ASD, or rigid. So you need to address this sooner rather than later.

I am talking to her, I am sowing the seed, I am doing all this! She also is refusing to speak to me when I discuss it, getting cross at me if I mention it and it is putting her in a low mood. I did this with FM this year and she did eventually drop it. I have told her she is able to drop one, so she doesn’t need to be ashamed/embarrassed if she does drop it.

in fact, what I need to do is support her and show that I am supporting her while giving her the option to drop it. Not how I want it to happen. But this is precisely what rigidity is!

She is autistic - mentioned that in my opening post

Sorry I didn’t, but yes she is - I have addressed it - she is not my only autistic child.

My DD did this. Her fourth was further maths. Her college expects everyone to do an epq. However, the college also actively discourages kids to do 4 a levels unless they really need it for uni. My DD has gone on to do maths so the FM was necessary for her. I think my DD is very bright (academic prizes all though secondary) and pretty organised and even she found 4 a levels plus epq a lot. I think most of her uni offers were reduced due to her eqp.

Are you autistic aswell OP? You seem incapable of answering a direct question. What the heck are you going to do about this? step up and parent your fxxking children properly.

Ds did 4 A levels and an EPQ. He is rigid and Autistic - maths, further maths, Physics and Classics his EPQ was maths related.

@Oblomov23 youre fairly rude, and it is mumsnet, so I get that. if I was autistic, you would seem to see that as a negative.

i am trying to retain some privacy as I am concerned about people identifying me and dd. Sorry you don’t think I am a good parent, and sorry you don’t have a good understanding of MH and the difference presentations of autism. Your name is familiar from the SN boards, tbh, I would have assumed your have a much better understanding.

My dd is just going into Alevel year 2 at a sixth form college. She took 4 options at Alevel in year 1 (after some negotiation), sat AS levels in all, and will now drop 1 to do an EPQ in Year 2. She sounds similar to your daughter, ASD, very high achieving and puts lots of pressure on herself, she’s had a very rigid work ethic all year so has managed the work (4x A-grades in AS exams). So totally doable but maybe worth putting an end of year 1 reflection point in to allow her to refocus and drop one if necessary.

sorry you don’t have a good understanding of MH and the difference presentations of autism. "

No. I do. Ok both counts. You are incorrect.

My DD is at FE college doing 4 x A levels (not FM) and an EPQ in Y13. I am begging encouraging her to give up the EPQ at least, but she wants to give it a go and anyway thinks she won't be allowed to give anything up 🤯

At least 4 x A levels gives you the advantage of four goes to get the three grades you need (assuming you can manage the workload), but only one of the unis she is interested in takes any notice of the EPQ so it's really not worth the effort imo.