DS not wanting to move from private school to state 6th form

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My son has had a very rocky road, academically, at his selective private school. I've been really unhappy with the school who've not stretched him/set high academic standards for him at all with the result that he has completely stagnated or gone downhill. Other boys who aren't ultra passionate self-starters have done the same. I didn't realise how bad things were until he was in his GCSE years and I was determined that he wouldn't stay on there - I just felt it was a colossal waste of money (and I'm not loaded by any stretch of the imagination). The major plus is that he's is very popular in school - loads of friends and they are absolutely lovely. That really is the only positive - he's not interested in clubs/sport at the school etc. Over the past few months, we've visited some good state schools and he has offers from a few for 6th form. He's gone along with this but today, he's made it clear that he 100% does not want to leave his friends. He has a hobby outside of school that takes up quite a lot of time and he says that with that, he would barely see his school friends unless he's actually at school with them. He has just about scraped a place at the private school 6th form (literally did one month of revision to cover all subjects) and I've told him that he has to massively step up at the school if he stays there which he's promised to do; I also intend to speak to the school. It still seems like a huge waste of money to me though. Would you insist your DS leave (given the years of poor performance from him and the school's indifference to this - although they do get good results for try-hards) or do you think friendships are so precious he should stay where he is.

Comprehensive girl here. So no experience of private education. But isn't the main point of private education that they are a bit more selective so learning happens more quickly with a brighter cohort, badly behaved kids and bullies can be removed more easily, fewer rough kids beating other kids up in the playground, teachers less distracted by having to deal with kids coping with very difficult personal circumstances. They can provide expensive school trips and activities. Depends where you live but certainly in some London areas where there are expensive 4 or 5 bed Victorian terraces occupied by affluent types very close to social housing estates which have problems and deprivation, and where the local schools don't feel they can provide expensive paid for trips and activities as it would be too divisive, people choose private.

But at his age this is not too relevant at A level. And his leisure time is mostly taken up with this activity. Unless he is headed to Oxbridge and might benefit from private school coaching, which it sounds as if he isn't, it's a waste of money. As for his friends, he will only be with them for less than two years. Then he will be on his own anyway.

Bit confused- you're talking about this coming term? Have you actually given his current school notice that he is leaving?

IME boys seem to very resistant to changing schools at 6th form. Girls less so.

I know so many boys who got places at much better schools than current one for 6th form and either downright turned it down or went for a few days and went back to their old school. Much to their parents annoyance. Yet girls seem much happier to move on at that time!

Have you had the conversation with him about how right now the school fees represent poor value for money? Is there a way that he could be made to feel the squeeze financially if he doesn’t pull his finger out.

@minipie , agree!
Though what A levels combination and what did he get at GCSEs? This should factor for the next stage.

Totally take your point about these friendship groups fragmenting after the next two years ... good point.

Not given them notice yet as we don't have firm offers from anywhere else - yet. Waiting to hear back from the state schools as we've had to do some subject switches. I know I'll take a hit on one term's fees but, if he is up for leaving, it'll still save me five terms fees.

He's really aware that the money could be used much more wisely - that's the one thing he mentions about not continuing at this school. We would have a really lovely life/would be much better set up financially if we didn't spend that money on his education. I'm just not sure I've got it in me to wrench him away from his friends - he'd be the only one leaving.

I didn't do as well as I could have at my private school. I was lazy but pushed enough to pass at least. If I'd been at state school, I would have failed everything because I needed that attention. (My siblings were amazing at state school as they had high intrinsic motivation).
I moved to state college and completely flunked as the lack of structure was too much of a change for me.
My sons went to a lovely state school and then the school sixth form and flourished. I would suggest if you move you choose a school sixth form rather than a college. It would be an easier adjustment and I felt my boys were really noticed and motivated in a school sixth form, much more than I was on a large college.

He knows that you are not going to do it. He didn't do enough work for his GCSEs. You are now backing down and saying that he has another year. There is no chance of moving him in the middle of his a levels. He knows this, you know this. The school are unlikely to kick him out because they are getting fees. He probably knows that they don't mean it either!

I think you should probably stop making idle threats that you may wish you could carry through but can't. He obviously wants to stay where he feels comfortable and is happy. Why wouldn't he?

I suspect there may be more support for him at a state school, he will be monitored and pushed and could still be asked to leave if he does no work.

The school would have to have a very cleverly written behaviour policy to succeed with that one. State schools (unlike, by the sound of things, the OP's DS's current indie) cannot permanently exclude for lack of academic achievement. Look up St Olaves, 2017.

I'd probably let him stay where he is if it's actually affordable- it feels very late in the day for deciding all this and I'd worry that his unhappiness plus a less structured school (assuming he's at a fairly trad independent at the moment) plus the fact it's all a bit last minute, might lead to him doing even less work.

However I'd also talk to him seriously about what would help to keep him on track. Obviously he should be self-motivated at this age but I find that my DS still needed some guidance- reminders to do homework plus talking through what he has done- to stay on track. I'd suggest that stopping the hobby might be a better thing to talk about if he doesn't start working harder (not sure ultimatums are the right way to go about this at this age, would be tempted to put it more in terms of his choices) as it sounds like you're not actually going to change the school.

I'd also talk to the school about all of this and tell them your concerns. You can ask for more frequent updates on his progress.

I too get the feeling you're talking yourself out of pulling him out of his private school. OK it's a decision, but there should be consequences.

So tell him AND the school - homework is to be submitted and homework is marked in a timely fashion, ie before the next homework is due. Any tests need to be passed with flying colours and if not there's a plan put in place to address the problems. If homework missed, tests failed, bad attitude - no out of school hobby - no paying for it, no taxi service for it. You get my drift.

Both your son and the school need to earn those fees you are paying.

If I make the assumption that you chose to send him to private school and have always done so (rather than him begging to go on the promise he would work hard) then I think you should continue to send him. It was your choice to tie in his friendships and social side of school with a fee paying environment not his. If he has gone to private school since he was little he had no say in this so the effect of what you ate saying is work hard and apply yourself at school (which lots of kids don't) or I will sever your friendships. Not fair. If you weren't in it for the long haul then you should have just sent him to state school and his friends would be there.

Some friendship groups change in 6th form. The party lot start partying and if he is doing his hobby he may get sidelined anyway tbh

Not necessarily. My brother had a very tight friendship group at his private school and they are all now in their 20's but still best friends who go on holidays together and meet up around the world and my brother recently had a house-share with one of them. They all went to different unis around the world and all have high flying graduate careers now, but they are still very close.

My best friend is also from school (and I'm in my 30's) and we didn't go to the same uni.

That’s a lot of money to pay for someone likely to coast. A levels is a big step up. That money could go towards a house deposit / Uni. Kids of that age make friends easily, and he can expand his friends group which is never a bad thing

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice/insights. To fill in some gaps, he was at a state primary school and in the secondary school lottery, we got our sixth choice. The private school he's at was our back up option. From feedback here, I've also become more aware that I'm a soft touch and that I'm not going to take him out of his school against his will - I just haven't got it in me to do that. So - I'm going to present the case for him not going and hope he realises that it's better for him to leave. The updated news is that he's got an offer today from a great state school, which he visited a couple of months ago and decribed as 'amazing'. I went along today and it really is. I've also realised from all your feedback is that his priorities are: hobby/friends (school and hobby-related) and then school way down the list. My strongest argument for persuading him to leave is that as the school is poised to kick him out if he doesn't excel at his next exams, he will have to pretty much ditch the hobby and devote most of his time to his studies; there will be no room for error as he's in their crosshairs. My second strongest argument is that he was already stressed yesterday as his school were asking him what he wanted to do at uni and where did he want to go (e.g. UK or US). He doesn't think that he wants to go to uni (given the job he'd like to do that his hobby relates to). His school has high academic expectations and we both think they'll right him off completely if he tells them that he doesn't want to go to uni or about his career choice. He's kept it under wraps so far but that's going to be harder to do in 6th form. Overall, I think just too much pressure - he's like a square peg in a round hole academically, although socially he thrives there. At the state school, it's a fresh start - no sword hanging over his head, and, as a comp, they would be much more receptive to his actual goals - he'd be able to tell them what he wants to do from the get go and wouldn't get judged for it. I'm really hoping that he can see that this would be a better place for him.

It looks like I'm doing against the grain but where I live there is only 1 6th form attached to the furthest out school of all schools in catchment.

None of the independent go past year 11.

So nearly all pupils start 6th form or college from all the local states or indies.

We have some very high performing 6th form colleges and 1 offers boarding and attracts pupils from all over.

We also have a colleges that offers T levels and specific stem courses only.

So where I live moving from your friends and all going odd in different directions is the norm whatever type of secondary education you received.

My middle daughter went from private girls school to our local college to study for her “A” levels, and loves it.

It was a massive relief because the costs of her education was becoming a real strain on our finances.

Sounds like a good plan! It would also mean he may be more likely to think about doing the subjects he wants rather than follow what his mates are doing.

How did she feel about leaving her friends?

Your DS has decided that school is a place for socialising with his mates rather than getting a decent education. And he’s taking control once again by demanding that he stays there “to see his mates”. He’s taking you for a complete mug.
My DD went to a state school and did really badly in her AS levels, so I told her she needed to do something else instead of wasting her time for another year. She sulked, argued and pleaded because she wanted to be with her friends. Despite that, she went to a different college, took a BTec, passed with distinctions, went to Uni, got a degree, got a job and now earns over £100k a year 15 years on. Her 2 best friends are from her school days.

If he's able to continue the activity he's passionate about out of school, he'll see those friends. If he's popular at his current school, then perhaps he'll make new friends. I don't know where you are, but in the London borough I live in there are quite a lot of 11-16 schools, there are 6th form colleges, some more academic, some more mixed, some offering options at a number of levels - mixing academic and BTEc. My DS1 is going to a sixth form which will include students who probably live nearby in one of the wealthiest and most expensive areas in the borough, because they had to live closer to get in, but they also take a minimum of 75 external students a year, many from our 11-16 schools and I think they'd like to expand and take more.

Is his hobby a sport? Is there anywhere near you which offers courses/ enrichment activities/trips that could connect to his hobby? If his dream job is something which entrants go into in their 20s, what do they do before that? Might a move to a different school based sixth form college be a chance to pick up some skills which could help with what he does in the interim?

The other thing worth bearing in mind op is that 6th forms also have methods for off rolling those students who are likely fail a levels. Wherever he goes he needs to stay on track or he'll be out by year 13.

I know you're saying 6th form but if I've guessed rightly on his chosen career, have you thought of him looking at a b tech in public services? He could combine social activity and hobby Win/win? It still gives him UCAS points.

You are throwing good money after bad and basically paying for your son's social life. If they are such good friends he will find a way to see them, even if only in the holidays. I think it sets a terrible precedent to let him continue when staying is not even about his academic education. He may well benefit from moving and making new friends.