Conditional offer for 6th form

[Stranger3]

Dd has a 6th form place at JAGS conditional in GCSE grades - i am sure all as standard, with 8s or above required for her chosen A level subjects and a certain number of 7s or above. She is not too confident about how she has done, particularly in a Science paper she wants to do for A level which is key for what she wants to do at university. With GCSE results fast approaching she is getting increasingly anxious about it all. I was just wondering if anyone has any idea how stringent schools tend to be if a grade is missed - even narrowly? I am sure it is all individual and depends, but this is something i find it very hard to get any insight on so if anyone has been through something similar or has any words of wisdom as to what to expect, that would be much appreciated. There is obviously no equivalent of Clearing for 6th form admissions so I am wondering what kind of a plan B is possible in this situation in the context of independent schools… Am hoping to hear that unless it is a huge multiple miss schools might be lenient but any information much appreciated. Thank you!!

@Stranger3 , if say she got a 6 in chemistry they would probably ask her to change her A level choice but still take her. If she got a 7 in chemistry they would probably be open to a discussion. Currently the school will be expecting your dd to join in a couple of weeks so will do all they can to make sure she starts with A level choices that reflect her ability.

@tennissquare thank you so much for your reply. That makes sense. I was very much hoping to hear something like this. Extra complication is that (as i am sure is also very common) she HAS to have Chemistry (that was a great guess :)) for her dream Medicine degree. I wonder IF the school asked her to pick another subject there would be a way to still do Chemistry either as an additional subject at JAGs or some other way? Perhaps school could advise. I realise we just need to wait and see but she is driving herself mad and it is really contagious… :(. Thank you again,

I would just take a step back for now, medicine is such an incredibly tough journey (I'm sure you follow the Higher Education medics threads) and full of rejection so you need to start building up her resilience. I know changing school at this time can add to the anxiety so it may be this too. I'm sure her gcse grades will all be great and she can start her A levels full of confidence.

You are absolutely right. She agrees too.
Hadn’t taken a proper look at the Medicine threads until now. They look incredible in terms of info and detail. Thank you.

There isn't an equivalent of clearing and I'm on the other side of London from you, but DS1 is looking to get into A level courses at a number of quite selective state sixth forms (some school and some college). He needs 8 for Further Maths, otherwise students need 7s for any specific subjects they want to study, and all or nearly all 7s or above for most subjects. One needs a 7.5 average for a 4 A level entry (which is most common there, and which includes DSs application), and one needs at least 7 7s for 4 A Levels which means that 6s and 7s need to be balanced by 8s and 9s.

Their results and destinations sound like they are suitable for a clever girl aiming to go to medical school, with a lot of support on hand for competitive applications, and presumably there are similar available in South and Central London. While all these say they have more applications than places, a lot of applicants are currently holding several offers (DS1 has 5, though I'm not sure any of them look like a plan B if things go wrong). I also have a memory of kids looking at new options and at an offer place where they'd missed requirements, and one got an offer from a school sixth form he hadn't applied to before his original offer decided to offer him a place with lower grades.

I may be being naive here but surely the 'plan b' would have been to apply to other 6th forms with lower requirements?

Some schools have high requirements to keep their A level grades high, not just because any lower and you wouldn't cope.

@elkiedee thank you so much for this, that sounds great - I will have a look around. Haven’t looked at state schools which is our mistake - had lots of offers from selective private schools, took a long time deciding but in the end she wasn’t interested in schools with lower requirements and the JAGs conditions seemed very achievable at the time. @TeenDivided , I suppose a sort of plan B would be staying in her current school - they indicated they would most likely be able to accommodate her if she wanted to ‘come back’. She is just really not keen on that. Obviously another private school with lower requirements would have meant forfeiting not just a deposit but, at this stage, a term’s fees if we weren’t to take up the place.
I do agree with the high grade requirements being there to keep up the stats. The frustrating thing is that Chemistry is DD’s favourite and best subject by far so we have no doubts whatsoever she would cope with the A level - it’s just one of those things where she may have got too stressed out to do her best as she felt there was so much at stake.

The requirements for the girls already there is for 8+ in all their A level subjects, so that sounds like a hard rule.

I would say that with hindsight it depends on what your dd would like most. To attend a particular school or take a specific A level subject?
I have taught A level Chemistry and it's possible for students to do well at A level with grade 7s at GCSE.
When dd collected her GCSE results, the school already knew which pupils had not attained the entry grades needed for their chosen sixth form and had staff on hand to help these pupils with alternative options.

It will come down to whether they can fill all the places with girls who have the grades they require or not. If they have empty places then they may relax the entry requirements, but I doubt they'd relax the subject specific requirements. It's not like she is a current pupil, where they know what she is capable of outside the exam room. Selective indies want to keep their grades up.

@catndogslife that’s a really key point. She is very very keen on this particular school - her sister is also going into JAGs into year 9 and they are keen to stay together. But also she is just really impressed with the support for uni applications and the general quality of education on offer.

BUT she is also really keen to do Medicine. JAGs is very good at supporting Medical applications and it is likely an alternative school would allow her to do Chemistry but would have less success with medical applications anyway,. (Though i know that it is not all down to the school of course but the work she puts in, the support from us etc).

I think at the moment she thinks that IF she was to get good enough grades to get in to JAGS but not do Chemistry A level she would still go to JAGS if there was a way to get the Chemistry A level some other way - i am not sure what the options are there -whether she could study for it in a gap year or online in parallel - dont know yet. But that is a major dilemma - should she instead go for a less academic school where she could do the A levels she wanted - assuming there is that option. This is why i was asking yesterday how she would get the missing A level if JAGs offered an alternative set of subjects. I understand there is an option of Foundation courses for medical degrees for people who may not have the right subjects for example.

there is a huge amount of ‘ifs’ here for course - i am just trying to think this through in terms of potential scenarios so i know how to best support her on the day and how to speak to the school. The dilemma of the school vs A level subject is the hardest bit.

@Seeline yes this makes sense. I dont know if they still have more people with offers than places at this point - it would seem that everyone is committed to a school at this late stage, with fees due? I expect, somehow, there is still movement post results so yes i cant imagine that would have trouble filling her place. And Chemistry is a popular subject. I agree too that the fact she is not one of their own doesnt help.

Sigh.

I suspect she's overthinking it. She is obviously a bright girl and JAGs need to fill places- they and other selective girls schools all lose girls to other schools at 6th form. There probably will be some leeway especially if grades overall are lower, which I suspect they will be.

@Stranger3 , have you looked at the 2019 grade boundaries for her chemistry gcse? I think she is overthinking this, I'm sure she will come out with a great grade.

The Indies we looked at didn't charge fees if grades weren't achieved though.
Some girls will also have state options.
My DD could stay at her existing school, but preferred one which had higher grade requirements. We also had a state 6th form as a third option. We gave provisional notice at her existing school, so weren't obliged to pay fees post GCSEs if she decided to go elsewhere (which she did).
There will be lots of movement post results.

On a different point, there are a few med courses which do not require chemistry.

Thank you @zipittydoodar, @tennissquare…she certainly is overthinking and so am i. I have also been hoping the lower grades might help with a bit more leeway. I did look up the grade 2019 grade boundaries :) - IF i read it correctly it was 70% and 74% for the two papers. It doesnt seem too bad but hard to tell.
@Seeline no, if she misses the grades we wont be charged but obviously lining up another private school would have cost us deposit plus fees if she didnt take up the place. We did the same with her current school - gave notice but they would still have her.
i thought there was only one uni that did not require chemistry for medicine but I haven’t look in any detail yet. Thank you so much everyone for your thoughts - it really helps to mull this over.

If it was just one paper and her old school are willing to write a letter in support that the result was unexpected and her grades were consistently good previously, they might allow her to do the A level. I would suggest you speak to the school ASAP.

As a PP said, you don't need A level chemistry for med school BUT it does reduce the number of options available. If you head over to the medicine threads on MN, you will see that applying strategically to med school is common (and good) advice ie looking to see what the selection for interview criteria are and applying to schools that you match best. Med schools rank applicants based on GCSE results, aptitude test results (UCAT and BMAT), A level predictions, work experience (possibly only St George's) etc but each school does it differently. Your DD's options will be reduced if she doesn't have Chemistry A level.

I would get her to have a look now to see the options available without Chemistry A level. Look at the selection criteria, the A level grade requirements (so she has a selection of lower and higher offers), and whether the course is right for her (eg does she want to intercalate, be in a large city hospital, the teaching style (PBL, traditional, integrated), how they teach anatomy (prosection, full body dissection), whether they use the same aptitude test (does she want to prepare for both tests or just one). It's also worth thinking about work experience and planning for the aptitude test preparation this year. It's also worth looking at schools that have places in clearing regularly. St George's keeps some places available to offer in clearing to students with good A level results that didn't secure a place at other med schools. They won't consider applicants who they rejected at interview that year though so in some ways it is better not to apply to St George's!

Here are some links to get her started:

https://www.themedicportal.com/application-guide/choosing-a-medical-school/what-a-levels-do-you-need-to-be-a-doctor/

https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/making-an-application/entry-requirements-for-2024-start#:~:text=The%20standard%20offer%20is%20A,receive%20an%20offer%20of%20ABB.

Yes there is a way to take A level Chemistry as a private candidate. The main difficulty is organising the practical work though.

Further to my previous post, I know quite a few DC who were allowed to take A-levels despite not getting the required grade because they messed up 1 paper, including those who changed schools, if their teachers supported them taking the subject.

But the question your DD needs to ask herself is what will help her to get into med school more - taking A level chemistry or going to JAGS? I would guess the answer is that JAGS success at getting students into med school is probably more about being very selective in who they let into the sixth form rather than the quality of the teaching and their uni application support.

TBH, a self motivated, bright student is probably going to get good grades and get into med school (although it takes many outstanding students 2 attempts) wherever they study unless the school is truly terrible and they have no support and no one to give advice. She should be able to navigate applying with help from online forums like TSR (the student room), MN, the med schools council etc.

@Diospyros this is all so incredibly helpful, thank you so much. We are just starting to focus properly on the medicine application process and i have spent a bit time on the threads here and God, they are an eye opener - if making me feel overwhelmed at the moment! Thank you for the fantastic advice. I actually tend to agree with you - i think doing Chemistry in a perfectly fine school (just considerably less selective) would be preferable to doing a different subject at JAGs given that even in the best scenarios that WOULD make her medicine applications considerably more complicated. She seems to be quite hung up on JAGs right now - comparing 10 girls going off to do Medicine with 1 or none from her current (not bad!) school. But obviously it would help her to understand better how much harder pursuing Medicine would be without Chemistry. And i agree of course that the bigger medicine intake is in large part due who they accept.

DD got wonderful support on her UKAT prep and Medicine application from JAGS - particularly because her lower 6th year was in lockdown, so gaining any work experience was somewhat tricky… The Mumsnet threads helped too! Quite a few of the prospective medics did EPQs on medicine related topics, which were well supported and were often referred to in her interviews.

Would your DD take advantage of the PE, music, drama etc?

@KingscoteStaff that’s great to hear. Honestly DD did have several offers to similar calibre schools but none impressed her as much - and one of the things she is most impressed with is what they do for Medicine candidates and generally how they support the six formers for Oxbridge, various careers etc. So while I do realise that being selective is obviously a big contributor to uni designations, it is very hard to persuade her at the moment she would do just as well somewhere else! :) i would love more than anything for her not to have to face the Chemistry vs JAGS dilemma and obviously just to get what she needs.
She would absolutely take advantage yes. She is more bookish than athletic but does enjoy sport, plays an instrument and just generally keen to get stuck in. Although she does (rightly i guess) anticipate a very busy two years.

Good luck to your DD today, @Stranger3! Hope everything works out the way she wants.

Thank you so so much for thinking of us @Diospyros. She got everything she needed and more in the end! We are very very happy and relieved and she is off to JAGS to do Chem, Bio and English as planned. I am so grateful for the support on here. Thank you ❤️

That’s brilliant! And exactly the same subjects as DD!

Well done her!

Congratulations to your DD!

If her heart is set on medicine, I would definitely recommend starting to think about work experience/med schools as soon as she has finished celebrating her success! 😂The second year of sixth form will be hectic with her UCAS application, aptitude tests, and med school interviews alongside studying for exams so it's best to try and get some work experience this year. One less thing to juggle next year! It's also worth thinking about whether the schools she is interested in applying to use the UCAT or BMAT tests so she knows whether she needs to make time for preparation for them.

Volunteering for St John Ambulance is a good one. As well as first aid training and dealing with patients, it also shows long term commitment more than a 2 week placement. Work experience doesn't have to be in medicine directly (ie a hospital, GP or other medical setting). Things like volunteering in a nursing home or a special school or homeless shelter are also relevant.

As you are nearby, she might be interested in taking the campus tour at Guys (Kings College), even if she doesn't necessarily want to apply there. They are often led by medical students so they are a good opportunity to ask questions about studying medicine, intercalating etc that is quieter than the open days. Plus you get to visit their Pathology Museum, which isn't normally open to the public!

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/study/campus-tours