How much work should year 11 be doing?

[SummerDuck]

So DS2 is going into year 11 next year and is probably your typical bright but lazy teenager. Very capable of achieving a good number of 8s and 9s next year with effort but equally would be happy to scrape by if left to his own devices.

Me and DH have agreed that we want to implement some more structure to his studying next year- i.e. handing over his phone when he gets in from school until some homework and revision has been completed.

What we can’t agree on is how much work he should be doing. I’m inclined to say he should be starting with 2.5 hours of homework/revision on school nights and then 3 hours a day at weekends, but DH thinks this is far too little.

So to parents of DC who have just left year 11- how much work did your DC aiming for top grades do?

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/29/south-korea-suicide-crisis-k-pop-young-people

beneficial to whom?

‘In the hope of securing bright futures for their children, many parents throw them into an intensive education system, which takes precedence over socialisation and wellbeing. This obsession stems from the highly competitive job market, where good grades and a prestigious university degree are seen as necessary for obtaining stable and well-paid employment. The result is that the vast majority of children, some as young as two, are sent to cram schools on top of regular schooling.’

This is not something we should be emulating.

There is supporting your child, buying the resources sitting down with them and quizzing them which is useful in terms of revisions, but having them isolated in their room for X amount of hours isn't good for anyone.

Students need to work out what revision method works best for them and may need some guidance from you (if you know different techniques). Teach them the skills so they can go off and do it themselves otherwise you may get lucky and they'll bow down to a strict regime now but not going forward to A Level and University.

Which GCSEs does your DS actually need to move forward? Look at the College website and UCAS for entry requirements and focus revision on those subjects and then do less on the ones he doesn't need if he is a high achiever then even without a heavy revision regime he should pass them easily even if not at a 9. Most children aren't A** students, getting a 6 may seem middle of the road due to the numbering system but we would have all been chuffed with a B when we did our GCSEs.

We are currently leaning towards a compromise between mine and DH’s expectations.

So this is between 18.5 hrs and 32 hrs every week, with no days off, for the whole year? On top of full-time school? For GCSEs?

This is a very, very bad idea. How would you feel if you worked 50-60 hrs a week with no days off? What will you try but fail to make him do for A levels?

There is a huge difference between setting a revision routine and your child actually revising effectively.

With DS's support and agreement we set up a revision plan (which was much less than you are expecting). He either didn't follow it or didn't use the time effectively. The only thing it caused was stress on both sides.

If you have a child that's amenable to a revision routine, they are likely not to need you to set one up (unless it's just the mechanics of organisation and setting up study habits, they need help with).

What will you do going forward in Year 12 (if they have exams then) and Year 13? When will your child get the chance to show that they can manage for themselves?

I would suggest, that by your DH living in a different country and with your DS being raised in a very different culture and education system, your DH needs to accept that some things from his culture will not work here and some things are even detrimental.

By living in another culture, he should be able to see that things from his home culture are no longer appropriate.

The UK education system, syllabus and exams systems are not based on requiring 18 hour study days and your son will burn out and fail miserably.

Your DH’s plans will actually do harm in the UK system. At worst you will irrevocably damage your sons mental health. Please be careful.

The thing is, that isn't how getting opinions work.
If virtually everyone is saying your plan is not a good one, would it not suggest to you that your plan is not a good one?

Otherwise, why come and ask other parents / strangers in the internet?

Yes that's what I was thunking! Or will the OP jump eagerly on one person who says "oh yes this is a good idea"?

@SummerDuck I agree with @AnyOldThings that the culture of another country will not work, and in fact is not needed here. There is no need for a regime such as your DH is suggesting in order for a student to achieve their best potential in GCSEs. An able student who is on target for grades of 7-9 will manage that with a lot less, clearly focused revision and HW.

A less able student who is perhaps aiming for grades of 4-6 will also not actually benefit from a four-hour daily revision regime. They will just be overwhelmed and probably perform less well.

I'll ask again - what does your DS have to say? He is 15, so old enough to have a view. My DD and DS2 are both very academically able, and had the ability to understand what they wanted to focus on and work on that. DD got a 6 in maths - all she will ever need. She knew she could have done better, but chose to focus instead on subjects she was passionate about. Now she has a first-class degree in he favourite subject so I think that's a good outcome. But the point is I gave my DC credit for understanding what was needed. I provided revision guides, snacks, stationery (oh the staionery!), a listening ear and an open offer to help with any revision - which was sometimes taken up "can you test me on xxx? what's the French word for yyy?" But that was all.

I think the most useful help my DC had from me was "don't worry, you can do it, it will all be ok" when they came home overwhelmed by the pressure they were getting at school, feeling like it was all too much and they couldn't do it. I really really dread to think what would have happened if we had made them do 3.5-4 hrs work every night and 6 hrs per weekend day for the whole of Y11, instead of cheering them on, providing whatever practical help they needed and a respite from the stress.

18 hours a day equals complete burnout. My nearly year 11 isn't even awake for 18 hours a day. When would the relax, eat, sleep, socialise?

My nearly year 11 had mocks before the broke up. He revised for 30 minutes after a school day for a month before the mocks. He got all 6 s and above. They need down time. Doing 3 hours a night will burn then out.

I'm a secondary HOD and it really depends on how much homework your son is getting/what the homework is. In my subject (an option subject only available from KS4 onwards), we tend to set revision homework tasks therefore if they're doing the homework we set properly and paying attention in class, they don't need to do any more revision. With my KS4 form, I suggested 10 minutes a day per subject (but no revision for a subject if they had homework for it) and they found that helpful. The key to revision is starting early, doing little and often, having regular breaks (not on a computer - go for a walk for example) and making sure the revision they do is purposeful. A lot of kids think re-writing their notes or reading the text-book is useful but it's a waste of time. They need to be active; answering Qs, making revision resources like flashcards etc.

My DS is a boarder and they do sort of set a routine for them. Years 9 - 11, prep is 1 hour 45 mins during which boys are expected to do both homework and revision.

My daughter is at an independent. She is set 15 hours of homework a week. Sometimes it takes longer sometimes they rush through it. She quite often gets some of it done in library time. I think that is plenty.

So we have agreed a compromise. DS will be expected to complete 3 hours of homework/revision Monday-Thursday, have Friday night off, 3 hours on Saturday morning and 4 hours on Sunday morning.

He will hand in his phone during his revision sessions.

Is that a compromise between you and your DH, or has your DS bought into it too?
You aren't giving him a single day of rest, which to my mind is unreasonable to do 10 months away from exams.

@TeenDivided

He will have Friday evening and two weekend afternoons off and we have also agreed he can have the occasional Saturday morning off if he maintains straight 8s and 9s in his assessments.

So he's only doing 52 hour weeks at a minimum without a single day free of working and in addition to any non academic activities. How magnanimous of you.

Does your husband work 52 hours a week without a single day off? Do you?

Poor little sod. He'll be in bits by Christmas and if he stuffs up the first set of mocks because he's literally not had a single day off all term to let his brain rest and form long term memory, bet you'll absolutely chuck it in and try and force him to do more.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

DH is a partner in a law firm so does more than 52 hour weeks.

2.5 hours seems a lot after a full school day.. When my son went in to year 11 he attended 2 after school revision clubs per week both lasting 3 hours. One after school and the other Saturday mornings. He found this a really useful way to revise because there were teachers on hand who could help.

Not sure why you asked, really, as not wanting to hear what everyone else has said. That 'everyone' including parents and teachers.

Please keep a very close eye on his mental health. This schedule is cruel, completely unnecessary, and will probably harm his chances of achieving good grades.

And does his law firm comply with employment law about rest days?

Oh, that's OK then. You can go ahead and abuse your son by working him into the ground as though he's doing it by choice as an adult instead of with a shitload of money as an incentive and it'll be perfectly fine because you'll feel like he at least earned the breakdown.

I worry about the ethos that says: work exceptionally hard at school so then when you are an adult you can work exceptionally hard and earn lots of money, that then you have no time to relax and enjoy.

If he has to work that hard to get 8s and 9s, why not work a bit less and get 7s and 8s, or even 6s and 7s.

I mean if he wants to do all that work then fine, but maybe he would trade super high grades for a bit less work?