How much work should year 11 be doing?

[SummerDuck]

So DS2 is going into year 11 next year and is probably your typical bright but lazy teenager. Very capable of achieving a good number of 8s and 9s next year with effort but equally would be happy to scrape by if left to his own devices.

Me and DH have agreed that we want to implement some more structure to his studying next year- i.e. handing over his phone when he gets in from school until some homework and revision has been completed.

What we can’t agree on is how much work he should be doing. I’m inclined to say he should be starting with 2.5 hours of homework/revision on school nights and then 3 hours a day at weekends, but DH thinks this is far too little.

So to parents of DC who have just left year 11- how much work did your DC aiming for top grades do?

Dd1 did nowhere near that amount, just did her homework and revision and got all 9s, 1 x8 and 1x7. She also did clubs and socialising.

DD2 - It would be great if she could actually go to school, hopefully she will be able to sit some exams and pass some. One of the things that puts her off is the entirely ridiculous amount of homework they get now, far more than DD1 ever got in a grammar school.

He wants his kid to work 60 hour weeks? With no day off at all? And he thinks that will have a positive outcome?

Does he work 60 hour weeks with no days off?

He wouldn't be allowed to do that to an employee because it would wreck their health. I think that's a good indication of whether it would be an excessive and unreasonable demand of a child.

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

That's not checked work - it's a suggestion which covers revision of all 4 papers. They'd be going some to do it all! I tell them to focus on their areas of weakness, which they know because I tell them. And it's not on top of set work, if that makes sense.

I don't know how kids do homework after a day at secondary school these days. It's so intense. All the social pressure and heightened sense of embarassment teenagers normally have, then so much pressure laid on thick by schools to not miss a single day of school or you will fail in life. And so many rules, so many minor rules which get you a detention. It must be like walking on eggshells.

And what is the mental health situation for students/teenagers in that country? The usual ones in the media don't do well in that regard.

But 2.5 hours a week, multiplied by 10 GCSE's is 25 hours a week.
Or, 3 hours a day after school, and 5 hours each weekend day? I get that some of that is homework, but it's not massively less than the OP's husband is suggesting.

That sounds like way too much and he'll likely burn out before exams.

DD just did her assigned homework (which was replaced by revision prior to tests, mocks etc). She did a few bits and pieces of extra revision e.g. making flash cards as she went along. I doubt she did more than a couple of hours a night except before mocks/exams when it ramped up. Although she spent a large chunk of Easter working on her art and drama portfolios. And she definitely had one full day off at the weekend.

But, more to the point, she chose what level of work she thought was appropriate. IMO students who are going for high grades need to be very self motivated. There is more value in 30 minutes of concentrated work that you want to do, than doing hours and hours "just because". Particularly if you are resentful about having to spend your time doing it.

Your suggestion is WAY over the top. Far more than his peers will be doing.

Your dh is just being ridiculous. I fell very sorry for your ds.

I have DS1 going into yr13 and DS2 going into yr11.

I think how much they should do at home very much depends on the individual and by this stage should really be decided by them not dictated.

DS1 needed a little help with organisation so we sat down together to work out a weekly timetable for him making sure we factored in things like sport and 'chill time'. We didn't set a min amount of homework every day/night but we did plan blocks of time allocated to a subject and made sure all subjects were covered. He got all 8's and 9's so this worked for him.

I don't think he stuck to it religiously but he said the process of preparing it and having it available to check back to helped. As did building in time for other stuff.

DS2 will be very different. He is much more independent but also a bright, lazy student. I very rarely see him do homework. He tells me he does at the end of the lessons, on the bus, with his mates online at midnight etc. I have learnt to judge him on output rather than input. He gets good grades and stellar reports from school so I can't say he doing it wrong.

If I took his phone off him he would be livid and it would make no difference anyway. Both of mine work later in the evening after they have had some chill time.

If I were you I would suggest agreeing targets for him to aim for related to output and then suggesting help with a weekly timetable designed to work towards the targets and see where that leads to.

This is not a good idea - I have a DD who did GCSEs last year, in Y11 she just did the homework that was set. She probably reached that many hours of revision in the weeks just before and during exams.

For AS this year she did have to work a lot harder - assuming he wants to do A levels, how will your DS cope with Y12 and Y13 if he needs to do 20 hrs a week for the whole of Y11 to get decent GCSEs?

They really, really need their rest, downtime, fun, lie-ins, parties, sports and time with friends if they are to stay on an even keel imo.

I teach English so my out of class work covers two subjects.
Like I said, they get a suggestion of work which goes up to 2.5 hours a week after January. It's not mandatory, and I don't expect them to do it all - but "spend an hour making revision notes on the characters of x and y and their relationship", which is one task, is more useful to them than "revise for one hour."
January is when we have our mocks.

My daughter just did homework with a few hours revision over the week coming up to November mocks.

Same again I think for Jan mocks.

For real things she did about 4-5 hours a day over Easter. Term time until then it varied - she was in classes until 5 some days so no revision was done then just homework other days maybe 2 hours.

Quality is as / more important than quantity - 2 hours randomly reading more won't be as good as a 45 minute session specifically targeting a weaker area.

There is no way she could have kept up that pace from September.

Please listen to those of us who have had children go through this. Mine were high achieving mainly 9s and a some 8s sort. Absolutely too much work being suggested by your Dh for weekdays. For the start of year 11 it is mostly about completing homework and establishing their most effective revision techniques. For mine that was flashcards for subjects such as History and English, online for maths and science and they spent time finding the best ones. They had a lot of down time as they had already been in school for 6 hours, learning for 5 of those.

Your Dh is going to cause your child to have resentment and burn out. Revision is about effective, focused activity not a strict time tabled thing. Ds1 would often finish the topics earlier than planned but not have enough time to start another and so would just stop as he had completed his planned revision work.

Remember that they are still learning new things as they haven't finished the curriculum so anything like past papers will not be of benefit until much later in the year. In terms of times, mine came home but it was only a 25 minute walk home so in the door by 3.30pm, got changed, made themselves a snack and chilled for a bit, then had a "homework" slot which we always had since they started in year 7. Time to chill again before a family dinner and then free to do whatever they wanted. Often this would be a TV series with us and later gaming with their mates.

My child will be in Y11 soon, I think there is what kids should be doing and what each individual child should be doing

If we gave our child set rules and time they would sit there fiddling and not doing anything at all, I would rather they do what they can and be happy with that

I don't think it makes sense to force kids to study, sure it may make the parents feel better but is the study actually sinking in if they are forced to do it?

Thanks for all the thoughts so far. For balance, is there anyone who did set a strict revision routine with high expectations in terms of hours?

I haven't set any revision timetables for my child because they are their exams and not mine! They know how important their exams are, they know the grades they need for sixth form, I've let them get on with it!

They had 100% attendance, they completed all their homework, they had access to revision guides and they knew I would help test them/ go over stuff if they asked. Tutors were provided if asked for. This is enough input from you. The desire to do well has to come from them, not from you taking his phone and forcing him to do stuff.

The timetable you are suggesting is insane and your husband sounds controlling. If you are that bothered about his attitude, why is this only kicking in in Year 11? You should have addressed this way before now. Do you intend to do the same over A Levels? Your son has got to want to work otherwise he will become resentful and nothing will be studied.

This will not end well.

Have seen on an 11+ thread the OP has quite high expectations for y5/6 as well, so maybe her DS is used to it?

Leaving him to it is not an option as he would do no work if allowed. Tbh I would have thought a significant minority of parents would set a revision routine for year 11.

We are currently leaning towards a compromise between mine and DH’s expectations. In the country DH is from, DC study up to 18 hours a day (not advocating that!).

I helped DD with a revision plan, but it was led by her, what she thought she needed. And also not hours, tasks.

So she had a list of the topics she needed to revise in each subject and a plan for how she was going to revise them. Then we slotted those into a calendar, allowing roughly how long she thought each task would take, with days off, time for relaxation and socialising etc. And past papers at the end. Plus plenty of contingency in case she was ill or something else came up, like set homework or a school trip.

It was just to make sure she was starting early enough, help her stay on track and feel like she was preparing well. But again, only because she wanted this. It had to be very flexible - if too rigid then they feel bad every time they do less than they "should", and it's not about making them feel bad, it's about making them feel relaxed and confident because they know they are in control and working hard.

The main thing is - you can't make a 15-16 yr old work if they don't want to. Your best approach is to try to convince him to want to, instead of trying to force him. This is a sure way to turn him off studying completely and damage your relationship.

Honestly in Y11 he just needs to do the homework that's set, and if he is really keen, maybe a couple of hrs on a Sunday to go over what he's learnt that week, organise his notes, practise or study anything tricky etc. And then ramp it up a bit for mocks and a bit more for the exams themselves.

Is your DH from Korea? They also have the worlds highest teen suicide rate as the pressure parents put on their children is horrific.

No child should be forced to live like that. They are 15! These are GCSEs, surely you see that you shouldn’t be putting him under so much pressure at this age?

Honestly OP, Y11 is tough, there's a lot of pressure. Do not add to it! Your job is to be in his corner, help him with anything he needs (eg revision guides, testing him etc). By all means try to make him understand the potential consequences of making poor decisions if you think they're poor decisions. But ultimately he has to want to do it, otherwise it won't get done. And making school work a battleground will trash your relationship and make academic success less likely, not more.

I think for balance, some children would respond positively to an imposed and warm/strict routine - typically lazy boys who should be getting the top grades, but are content to gain passes!

Time and time again these children underachieve. I think setting a routine without phone would help. I was incredibly self-motivated at school, but my parents banned MSN messenger (showing my age!) until about 8.30/9pm and this really helped me avoid distractions. I'm convinced a bit more structure would be good for a lot of teenagers - including plenty of rest. It sets good habits and teenagers (most of us) are procrastinators who waste time scrolling on our phone for ages (guilty!)

I don't think the schedule should be every day- Friday night/one day at the weekend completely free, but scheduled time to do homework would really help. If the child doesn't have homework, make sure you know the exam boards so that revision guides/quiz sites/online resources can be found. Self-quizzing can be really effective.

Some of that time might be used to read - either texts being studied, or additional reading which will help overall.

You know your child- does he need to come in from school and chill for a bit, or does he need to crack on straight away so he can finish sooner?

There may well be revision classes which should help (and be included in the schedule)

Good luck - I really believe slow and steady wins the race!

Well you can want them to do that but you can’t make them. Even if they are sitting looking at their books it’s not necessarily going in.

Ideally in year 11 DC will discover what works for them in terms of organising and revising their own work.

DS (just finished year 11) stayed on top of homework through year 11, did no revision for November mocks (not the plan!), found out what needed more work and started putting that effort in ahead of second mocks in the spring, and the exams themselves in the summer. Don’t have results yet but I think that was a reasonable strategy.

Going into A-levels he’ll need to step it up again and the subjects he’s chosen mean we can’t help so it really will need to come from him, not us.

That was a response to the OP, btw. @HollyGolightly4’s advice all good.

@SchoolFeePain

DH is from South Korea. I definitely wouldn’t want to emulate their study culture but I do think the work ethic and focus on hard work they have is beneficial.