Highgate wood / fortismere / Aps

[Reginaldperrin]

We’re currently in the catchment for Highgate wood. I’m hearing quite a few disparaging comments about it being unambitious, and parents moving to try and get into fortismere or aps. Are those two options considerably better? Are they worth moving for all things considered?

There seems a definite snobbery against Highgate wood but is it justified? I obviously don’t want to send daughter there if it’s just not a very nice school. I was really hoping it would improve on the last few years, but everyone just seems to moving to try and avoid it.

Any opinions?

Hi, I was asked for my personal experience and if you read above I do say it is mixed. It depends how important extra curricular is to you and your child. My daughter does not want to do any extracurricular nor does my son. My son already plays in a football league and did tennis in the local clubs etc. After school clubs has never been a priority. Having said that my son has been in the school football team and won his years tournament with the local schools and recently went on a school trip to Madrid which was the best trip of his life. This is why he is very happy at HWS and it’s our experience. I have a child at APS also so I can give personal insights. My daughter had not been able to get on the trips at APS as they are heavily oversubscribed we have tried for skiing since year 7 and she has never got on. She has just got onto a trip in year 10!! What you read to actual real experience can be very different.

This is all really helpful thank you.

All the reports I’d heard were that HW was very unambitious, and that everyone sort of met in the middle (including the kids who might otherwise do well). I’ve also heard there’s a huge issue with toilets (seems like a weird thing to mention / or for there to be an issue about).

DS left Highgate Wood last year with 4 A levels - 3 As and an A*. He's very bright but not a genius and there were plenty of other students who did as well as, or better, than him. He had a very good time at the school and made some great friends.
It has some brilliant and excellent teachers and some that are not, but I'm sure that is the same in all schools. It went through a difficult time with its SEN kids last year but the new SENCO has made a huge difference and it seems to have got its act together.
Some of the buildings are a bit grotty (true of Fortismere as well) but it is getting some new and refurbished toilets, and Haringey has 'promised' to rebuild the sports hall in the next few years (I'll believe it when I see it!). It has added more clubs over the last year (finally).
It has a good focus on suporting its students and pastoral care but there are occasional behaviour issues still, although nothing really serious.

Better than Fortismere? The average grades are slightly better at Fortismere but that is more because of its catchment area and the huge number of kids getting tutored (plus tougher criteria to take exams). I doubt my son would have done any better at Fortismere than HWS but we will never know ......but I do believe HWS made him a more rounded person due to its diversity.
Would I move from Crouch End to Muswell Hill to get my child into Fortismere? Definitiely not. Would I move from Muswell Hill to get them into HWS? Ditto.. Both very good Secondary Schools - if you work hard and are committed you can get great results at either.

Huge issues with toilets in every school atm. All to do with massive decline in behaviour and as schools ultimate duty is to safeguard above anything else, it's a tricky position to be in as toilets are obviously places kids are locking themselves in and aren't easily monitored.

I hear things get better at HWS from KS4 up, but I don't like the way they test (everyone takes the same eg maths test, regardless of sets, and sets are then determined by % you score on that 1 test, so if you're in bottom set, you're not going to have a chance to move up unless you're going above and beyond outside of class)

Would anyone move to get into APS over Highgate Wood? Lots of people I know are doing this. It seems like a risk to me, but if its that much better than I would consider it....

At least a few families in my DS's years moved to get into Fortismere or APS. I would have done too but I just never found a house I liked within the budget and don't really like the area plus then figured out we'd spend over 100k on stamp duty so going private wasn't that much more expensive. To be honest, we've had a lot of stress over schools so part of me does think we should have just moved to have that certainty of a great school and no worries. On the other hand, loads of kids do really well at HGW and I know a kid (admittedly with SEN) who did not do well at APS so it really depends on your child. One thing you cannot deny is that the results at APS are fantastic, in a league of their own really but you will have to move within a few streets to get in which will cost unless you buy a flat. I know one family who brazenly bought a one bed in catchment and pretended to live there whilst keeping their house in Crouch End and never got found out.

The crouch end to APS/Fortismere catchment migration happens annually. I think this will slow down soon enough with the lower birth rate years going into secondary school. You can see it already with the distances offered at national offer for both secondary and primary. The distances for last child offered are all increasing.
If you do move for APS be clear you understand what you're getting. The school has huge numbers of suspensions/exclusions and it's not for everyone. Not saying it's bad, but it is very, very strict and certainly doesn't suit everyone.

Thank you both for your takes, that’s really interesting and I appreciate you sharing tour experiences. It does seem like a huge risk for no guarantee. we’re pretty settled in crouch End and literally round the corner from HGW.

I like the fact that the kids will have a nice local area they can access easily as they get older (as opposed to APS catchment).

It feels like there’s a real local snobbery towards HGW. I know it doesn’t have the years of good rep like Fortismere or the results of APS but is it really that bad? Maybe I’m wishful thinking.

Also how on earth do people know what would work best for their kids? I feel like fortismere would be too relaxed for one, and APS too strict for the other! 😂

@Reginaldperrin honestly I think people bend over backwards for something that is pretty inevitable by the time the kid is about 9. You can tell by then what sort of grades they'll get etc. Obv quality of school does make a big difference but community, happiness and friends make a bigger difference imo.
If you're going to uproot your family for what might not even work and make your kids miserable, is there a point?
I know 2 girls who went through HGW, one is still there, one left to Camden for Sixth form. The teaching apparently gets far better once they hit KS4.

Short answer is no.
Full disclosure, my DC went to / at independent schools, but I have friends and family in the area and know most of the schools apart from Heartlands.

1. Crouch End is a much nicer area than Bounds Green/Wood Green / Ally Pally area.
2. Schools go in cycles. About 10 years ago APS was not popular and had huge catchment area.
3. Some of my Crouch End friends tied themselves in knots with the same question and either sent their DC to HGW or independent school.
4. I think some of the complaints about HGW being unambitious is because so many parents spent years tutoring their DC for independent and selective state schools..
5. Secondary school is a culture shock, especially if your DC has been at one form entry Weston Park or Coleridge with an active parent body.
6. No school is perfect, every school will have issues.
7. The kids we know who left in Yr 9 didn't moved to independent schools, not state.
8. Our friends saw a massive improvement at HGW from GCSE years.
9. We personally know siblings that went to Oxbridge from HGW (if that is important to you.)

I think different schools work for different children. It depends on whether they are more arty or sporty, if they are self motivated or need a bit of a push, how likely they are to consider authority to be boundaries or something to rebel against, etc.

I live relatively close to you but DC in primary so no direct experience. But everyone I have spoken to near me seems to love Fortismere. I have never heard someone criticise it. Whereas the other schools seem to have people who love them or hate them. I get the impression that their views are dependent on the personality of the child and whether the school suits them. It makes me wonder if Fortismere is somewhere in the middle and/or is better at catering to lots of types of children/personalities.

@StrawberryEater I'm shocked you've not heard anything negative about fortismere! Lots of people grumble about it. Obv less likely to if they've paid through the nose to be in the catchment but still. I actually think Highgate wood is the middle one out of the 3. APS extremely strict, Fortismere extremely relaxed and disorganised and Highgate wood somewhere in between.

Also interested in experiences of HWS. We live nearby and I've seen some horrendous behaviour of the kids at bus stops and local park. Really horrible stuff but not sure this is just what it's like living near a secondary school. I too have heard it is unambitious from local parents, but the children I know who have gone there and currently in year 7 seem happy.

@Soma I also mentioned this up-thread I think- our friends also saw a big improvement at KS4. I'm not a fan of Highgate Woods by any stretch but a lot of schools struggle with KS3.

@AndAllOurYesterdays That's just living near a secondary school. You'll get this living outside of APS or any of the others too.

@soma do you know anything about the sixth form at HGW? It seems to be one of the few 6 forms that still teaches art/creative/design subject at A levels. It would mean a move for the child from another out of area state school.

We are aware of CSG and La Swap ( and the big sixth form colleges in Angel and by Corams Fields).

Secondary school kids can be a nightmare, but it can happen at any school. A friend in South London's son's school use to finish at 2.15pm every day to avoid contact with "rival" schools at home time.
Not sure if things have changed, but APS used to have police stationed at the bus stops out the school in the morning and afternoon.

@Leopardmatches what schools don't have creative options? Almost all sixth forms do.

@Soma only reason schools don't have police stationed outside anymore is due to cuts. Used to be the norm in all the N London schools, even the traditionally 'leafy' ones like fortismere

@AndAllOurYesterdays what type of behaviour have you seen. Ive seen lots of boisterous stuff and some silly knock down ginger type games from younger ones, but nothing super awful.

@Reginaldperrin I've seen a group of boys surrounding a girl at a bus stop making clearly unwanted sexual advances and using horrible, misogynistic language. The other incident was in the park where a group of older kids surrounded some younger ones and were shouting and jeering at them. An adult intervened and it broke up.

@Leopardmatches a friend's DC moved from another state school for A levels and is having a really pleasant experience. I think there was some issue with admin in the first week, but apart from that they really rate it.
Another friend's DC did creative subjects at La Swap, but were disappointed in the lack of support for university application.
Have you looked at Woodhouse College in Finchley? They only do A levels and take 700 per year. It is not the most nurturing, but they have a good mentoring system where they pair up students with outside professionals. A friend of mine asked me to speak to one of her mentees who was interested in my area of interest.

@Foxesandsquirrels that makes sense.

Depressingly, this is something you'd see outside most secondary schools.

Thanks @Soma . That’s good to know. Yes, I know about Woodhouse but I think although they do Fine Art A level I think that’s it for creative subjects.

I am not sold on La Swap.

And yes @Foxesandsquirrels while most school sixth forms offer Fine Art many either don’t teach, or won’t enable it to be taken alongside things like photography, art history, textile or product. Some teach textiles and product as an art subject so it can’t be taken with art. Some don’t teach it at all. Hardly anywhere teaches art history.

@Leopardmatches have Woodhouse dropped A level music? They used to allow external students take music there. What subjects is your DC interested in taking? One of mine did two creative subjects, but wishes they'd added a language or classics.

I think both Fortismere and La Swap allow fine art and photography. Everywhere seems to allow Fine Art and music. To be fair, some independents don't allow both Fine Art and textiles.