Highgate wood / fortismere / Aps

[Reginaldperrin]

We’re currently in the catchment for Highgate wood. I’m hearing quite a few disparaging comments about it being unambitious, and parents moving to try and get into fortismere or aps. Are those two options considerably better? Are they worth moving for all things considered?

There seems a definite snobbery against Highgate wood but is it justified? I obviously don’t want to send daughter there if it’s just not a very nice school. I was really hoping it would improve on the last few years, but everyone just seems to moving to try and avoid it.

Any opinions?

Hopeful bump

Umm, we haven’t had a great experience at HWS, we are nearly through it now but I think I would have looked elsewhere if I’d had a crystal ball.

dd has some SEN, only diagnosed after starting at HWS but we haven’t felt very supported, a lot of children from her primary who started there have left. It hasn’t improved in the ways we hoped it would when she started.

On a more positive note, there are some brilliant subject teachers and some children we know are really flourishing there and the results don’t seem too different from APS/Fortismere with a more diverse cohort.

might be worth looking at Hornsey girls if you are not against single sex schooling and don’t want to move.

Thanks @Mediumred that’s a shame. I’m sorry it wasn’t a positive experience for your DD. I’ll look at hornsey too. It’s such a shame about HGW.

Watching with interest. I have friends with children who've just started at HGW and are happy there.

It's a bit of a marmite school. I don't really rate the head but he is having to lead a school with a huge union representation and is under a lot of pressure to please them. There is a lot of problems with behaviour and the buildings etc are in a horrible shape. I imagine there's little they can do about that though what with the current govt and their priorities. The science block looks like a prison, it even has the wrap around balcony and lookout. They spent ££ on a 3 story mural of Marcus Rashford which was bizarre.
Parents weren't happy with COVID provision or communication. Lots of last minute cancellations and disappointments. General tone of, this guy is obsessed with COVID but again I think this feeds back to large union representation. There's not many clubs, they're mostly ran by students if they run. They've got quite a few EHCP kids this year which is strange but most likely because Heartlands and APS are really pushing back on their SEN reputation and lots more parents are having to appeal to get spaces there. Hopefully that'll give the SEN provision a boost.
A Y11 we know well that has just left didn't go on a single trip in her 5 years. Same with their sibling who has just finished Y9. This may just be luck. I understand some residentials are coming back slowly. Not many day trips though but someone might come and correct me. The parents we know seem to be much more impressed with KS4 than KS3, but it may just be luck of the draw with teachers. Like in all schools some teachers are great, others aren't.
Lots of kids move in Y7-9 as parents aren't happy but this seems to settle.
It is a proper local school though and is truly reflective of the community. Lots of kids from the estates around Waltersville Road but also from the £££ houses in CE. They're much more flexible on uniform and not as militant as APS and Heartlands when it comes to behaviour, but again this can cause problems.
Their assessment process is the one that baffles me the most. End of term assessment in maths as an example. The whole year receives an email saying the maths exam will cover X, y, z. Sets are based on % you get in the exam. Doesn't matter if you've not been taught it, the email explained it as something like, we can't mark a different paper for each class that's too much, and we have to take into account people have tutors or do work outside of school? How depressing for the lower sets. Having to take an exam in maths you've not even been taught the content of. I've never seen this approach in any school before and I visit a fair number.
All in all, if you have a girl and don't want to move I'd probably choose Hornsey. It's by no means perfect but neither is APS.

Also, they seem to finish school very early. That might change with the new guidance though.

Thanks so much for your detailed post @Foxesandsquirrels How does Highgate wood compare to the other two do you know?

@Reginaldperrin I would say Heartlands and APS are a bit like fraternal same sex twins. Very very similar but not identical. My DD is at one of them. You can probably tell which one by my review. Both very strict, very no nonsense approach and both seem to be desperate to drop their 'amazing for SEN' reputation. Both have higher than average suspensions for SEN students. APS 6th form is very different demographic to the lower school. Huge and loads of kids commuting from east of borough eg Tottenham etc as those schools don't have 6th forms. Heartlands at one point applied for a sixth form but Haringey didn't accept it as they didn't see the need which I can understand.
As you probably know, APS is seen as the holy grail. I find the head really up his own arse but the team there is wonderful. They really try their best and the teaching is good. They're very strict on behaviour which some kids struggle with. Buildings are confusing as it's an old office complex. Good GCSE choices and broad curriculum. Lots of sports.
Heartlands is very popular with the ones that didn't get into APS. Lovely building. Air con, air filters and bright airy classrooms. No need to open windows in COVID etc. Lots of families from around Alexandra Park. There's some amazing members of SLT there and wonderful teachers. Some not so much. The head is approachable but no nonsense type of woman. Very clear and good communication. Amazing COVID provision. It's got a huge range of GCSE choices, tons of clubs, sports and trips. They go on a lot of day trips and have a lot of residentials every year. Really good provision for the very clever, they work with the brilliant club. Previous senco worked closely with APS senco so provision was very similar for SEN but they're changing that massively from Sept. Curriculum is changing to 2 year GCSEs from September. Very strict on behaviour and expectations are high for all students. Full set of exams end of each term with marking and feedback. Interventions after school for those not on track. Tiny classes in lower sets eg 9 in science, 5 in maths etc. They're not scared to suspend or exclude and the high rates were mentioned in their Ofsted so I suspect they'll be working on that. They really do a good job at protecting the kids and it feels very much like a community. Demographic is very similar to HGW. Mix of well off kids from around Alexandra park and then those from Wood Green/ Hornsey. Saying that, there is little to no community events. No PTA or summer fayre type of things. They have vocational qualifications for those who are unlikely to pass and make sure they can leave with something, same as APS. It seems theres a lot of v happy 'if the catchment to APS wasn't 0.4m they would've gone there' parents.
I don't know enough about Fortismere to comment. We visited it but weren't impressed, however we were mostly interested in SEN provision and found it awful for that.

Both my children go/went to APS, eldest with an EHCP and APS was perfect for him. We did visit Heartlands but the SEN provision then (7 yr ago) wasn't right for him. Youngest has just done GCSEs and hopes to stay on for sixth form.

I think it is an excellent school, great communication, excellent pastoral support, brilliant teaching. The only thing I didn't like was the strict uniform policy - but I know I'm in a minority of not liking school uniforms. My youngest didn't like a couple of the teachers but I'm pretty sure that's the same in all schools. My son was bullied a little (by another SEN child) but this was dealt with quickly and well. They are strict and my youngest sometimes complains about 'the rules' but I think this strictness does help with behaviour in a school full of teenagers.

The 'catchment' is tiny though, less than 0.4 of a mile. I think that distance went up slightly once past the acceptance deadline and some people didn't accept the place, but I'm not sure if that's still true. We got in with an EHCP but even 7 years ago we had to appeal. At the time it was the only school that could provide the SEN support my son needed, and I looked in surrounding boroughs too. I'm glad to hear Heartlands SEN has improved, I really liked it when we went to look at it.

I know a couple of people with children at Highgate Woods and they are happy there and doing well. We went to look at their sixth form and I agree with the earlier comment of the look of the science block, but I was impressed with the science teachers we spoke to.

I know Ofsted has massive problems atm, but both Fortismere and APS have been re-ofted'ed recently which is probably a good thing after 14ish years since their last one.

I'd recommend going to see as many as you can fit in, and go to the evening and open days. It's the best way to make up your own mind about a school, the open days give you a more realistic view of the school during a normal day. You don't have to wait until year 6 to start looking. I don't know the exact timings but the council look at how long you've been at an address to discourage people from temporarily moving to get a place at a school.

@Escentricmolecule Sadly I'm not sure I would recommend either APS or Heartlands for EHCP kids anymore. Their provision has massively changed, including the attitude towards those kids. I don't think it's just the schools not wanting them, but lack of money and increased need. Lots of TAs have left and not been replaced at both schools in the last 2 years as there's just no money and Haringey massively underfunds the EHCPs. My DD is at one and I am in close contact with a few parents from the other through Markfield and it seems to be the opinion across both schools. It's very very sad. Realistically though they're probably still the best options for kids in Haringey. I'm just glad my DD is nearly done.

Yes I'm very grateful my son went through primary with relatively decent funding and SEN support. We were lucky to get his EHCP in primary, although that was still a fight with the council. Thank goodness for Markfield! Funding has just been decimated over the last 13 years, for SEN and in education in general. And how they are supposed to find the 3.5% increase in pay from existing budgets I have no idea.

@Escentricmolecule My DD is just finishing Y10 and I feel the same.

Interested in recent views on HGW? Aware of quite a few parents taking their kids out in year 9.

Is this true @winterrabbit how come do you know?

Any more recent info on how these schools are doing. DD due to start in September and not sure which one we’ve got yet although most likely to be HW

Hi, I’d responded to your post back in the summer with a pretty lukewarm assessment of HWS.

DD now in her GCSE year and I’m feeling more positive about it all.

1. they have a very energetic new senco who is also an asst head. We probably haven’t experienced much day to day difference (dd pretty academically able and tends to mask in school so not had a lot of input from them) but it shows they are really throwing resources at it and it should benefit children lower down the school.

2. they started the school year with a massive and out of proportion uniform crackdown but have now asked the children for a uniform survey which should mean a more relaxed approach. think the staff were also fed up trying to constantly enforce the rules.

3. just so impressed with all DD’s passionate subject teachers. Some have really imbued her with a love for their subjects too and even the stuff she isn’t so keen on they have managed to cajole, support and inform the teens so hopefully they will do well.

4. dd probably won’t stay on but lots of children will as they have had a good experience and it’s a strong sixth form.

5. people I know with kids at APS and fortismere also rate the schools so hope your DD is happy wherever she goes.

Children did leave HWS when DD was younger and some of this was related to bullying or a lack of SEN support so I couldn’t say 100% that all problems are ironed out (although for us the school definitely seems to be improving)or it’s that by year 11 everyone has decided they will just stick it out.

@Mediumred I actually think your experience isn't uncommon. DD has quite a few friends at hws at nlpac and the couple of parents I've spoken to say they saw a significant improvement from GCSEs. KS3 they seem to really struggle with.

Thanks so much for coming back and updating @Mediumred thats so helpful of you. I’m really happy to hear things are improving a bit. I hope your daughter is happy wherever she goes next.

I am friends with 2 parents who moved their kids (in year 9) to other local schools. The reason is both cases was that HGW was not ambitious/pushy enough academically. It's happy if you're coasting along with 5s rather than pushing kids towards the highest marks. The aligns with what I've ever from other parents. It's ok if you've got driven, focused and well-behaved kids in the top set, much less so if your kids are lazy, demotivated or get into trouble where they may not do as well as if they went somewhere like APS.

Can I ask what schools they moved to @winterrabbit ? I have heard similar but don’t know whether fortismere is any better.

As an aside, I can say my year 11 son is pushed at HWS. Especially in year 11. He is doing triple science and is predicted 7/8s bu he is very much pushed and had a huge amount of homework and revision. I have another child in APS which is a brilliant but very different school and gets noowhere the amount of homework he does or pressure! Do different strokes for different folks or children! Both very happy children thriving.

Thanks @Mumsense thats really helpful to know. Can I ask I what sense you think APA and Highgate wood differ? I know aps has a better reputation.

I dont know where to start! My son is confident and sporty with lots of friends. He has a lot of fun at HWS, it is not as strict as APS. It has a lot of very MC wealthy children from Crouch E - musicians, actors, creatives and liberal parents. It's mixed also in terms of demographics which also means he is street smart which is a good thing. Educationally he is doing well and is worked hard. APS is much much more stricter and about rules which suits my daughter. HWS is more about the kids and has lots of parent kids events - ie Madfest. APS does not have much like that but it has lots of trips and opportunities for extra clubs etc. I would put a shy girl in APS and a cool confident child in HWS! Thats just me!

Really interesting insight. Thanks so much!

I'm not sure it's correct to say it has lot of very wealth MC kids. Some yes but also lots of kids from poorer backgrounds/estates. It's mixed. The general consensus is that extra curricular at HGW is not good. Very little on and stuff that was on before covid, e.g. trampolining, never restarted. Football very haphazard. APS definitely does more on that front (I know kids who have gone to the US on football trips with the school) and its exam results are a lot lot better. HGW gets 35% 7-9, APS 54%. Not really in the same ballpark. HGW is ok and I think most kids love it there but I would not say it works for all kids.