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Secondary education

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Original poster

Has anyone gone to court over attendance fine?

88 replies

Stclements115 · 10/07/2023 10:51

Just briefly (I can add more info if anyone is interested and can offer advice) - We had to take our son out of school for 5 days due to a self employed work clash which meant we both had to be away from home and had no choice but to take him with us- we informed the school beforehand and they didn’t authorise and therefore we have both received a fine. My husband feels very strongly that he wants to contest the fine due to our unique situation. This situation is very rare for us but as self employed people (in a cost of living crisis) there are rare occurrences like this where we cannot turn down work.
Eager to hear from anyone who has declined to pay fine and gone to court in a similar situation? Thank you!

OP posts:
mirages08 · 10/07/2023 11:08

You enrolled your child in school?

Legally, after the term dc turn 5 they HAVE to be in school unless they are being "educated otherwise" (home ed) or are ill/ otherwise incapacitated.

None of those apply here.

You say it shouldn't happen again so...pay the fine (which the DfE stipulate btw not the school)

Kingsparkle · 10/07/2023 11:11

I am very against these school fines but for the sake of £60 vs £2,500 if you take it to court I’d just pay it.

AP5Diva · 10/07/2023 11:14

You can go to court, but you will likely lose and the fine goes up plus you have court costs on top. Self-employed doesn’t matter. Plenty of couples get sent abroad at short notice by their employer on work trips and they have to find child care that includes to/from school. They’re not going to care about the cost of living crisis, they’re going to tell you the fine is a cost of doing business for a self-employed couple that you should have factored that in when you both accepted work on the same week. They’ll ask you, but you still came out ahead…you still made money on those days. Then you’re going to get a lecture on the importance of education and perhaps even a referral to social services to ensure your child isn’t only having their education neglected and deprioritised.

redskytwonight · 10/07/2023 11:14

IANAL But I can't see how you could win this. If it's a one off, just suck it up and pay the fine. If it's likely to be more than a one off, then you need to get proper childcare in place and not take your child out of school every time.

PennywisePoundFoolish · 10/07/2023 11:19

I think you'd be unwise and likely end up with a larger fine, plus potentially additional orders (attendance/parenting related).

Sweetleftfood · 10/07/2023 11:19

Yeah this is pretty weird, I get your situation but surely you could have as someone else said got some sort of care sorted? I am from another country and my husband from Ireland so have no family where we live but still in emergencies we have managed to find a solution. Sounds like you just wanted to take him out and bring him, which is fine but I would also just suck it up and pay

StressedMumOf2Girls · 10/07/2023 11:43

I agree with the others - just pay the fine. Going to court and arguing it isn't going to change their minds, even in your situation.

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 11:59

You'll lose this and end up with a huge bill. I don't agree with fines but equally your child shouldn't be missing school because of your work. You need to arrange childcare. The cost of living crisis is not your child's problem. They deserve and education and a whole week off school is ages.

Original poster
Stclements115 · 10/07/2023 14:14

Thanks for all your opinions on the matter but I’m still asking specifically if anyone has actually gone to court in this circumstance?

OP posts:
WheelySquirrel · 10/07/2023 14:20

I’m pretty sure it’s a strict liability offence which means all the LA would have to do is prove to the court that they were absent and that you hadn’t paid the fine.

Kingsparkle · 10/07/2023 14:55

I don’t think many people are stupid enough to risk court. Wouldn’t you be losing more than £60 in work to go to court for a day anyway? In a cost of living crisis too.

EduCated · 10/07/2023 14:59

A £60 is still a lot cheaper than childcare for the week.

Silkierabbit · 10/07/2023 15:07

I don't know details but DD said a girl in her year was absent due to anxiety and parents went to court and had to pay £2,000 and ended up having to withdraw her from school as could not afford fines. DD said girl was anxious.

I would not risk it, I think you will lose and also its dicey saying you had to take him out of education, that might be referred to social care if you push it.

Silkierabbit · 10/07/2023 15:10

Maybe ask mumsnet to move to legal section and see if you have any chance at all. Would doubt it.

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 15:34

Stclements115 · 10/07/2023 14:14

Thanks for all your opinions on the matter but I’m still asking specifically if anyone has actually gone to court in this circumstance?

Lots of people have, with far better arguments than you. I don't know anyone that's won. There was a very public case a couple of years ago of a dad that went pretty high up in court with it. You're not going to win and given your reasons for the absence, it's quite ironic that you're willing to risk such huge legal fees in a cost of living crisis.

Original poster
Stclements115 · 10/07/2023 15:51

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 15:34

Lots of people have, with far better arguments than you. I don't know anyone that's won. There was a very public case a couple of years ago of a dad that went pretty high up in court with it. You're not going to win and given your reasons for the absence, it's quite ironic that you're willing to risk such huge legal fees in a cost of living crisis.

Show quote history

Did I say I was ‘willing to risk such huge legal fees in a cost of living crisis’?

OP posts:
Kingsparkle · 10/07/2023 15:52

Ummm, yes you did OP, by discussing the possibility of taking this to court??

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 15:52

Stclements115 · 10/07/2023 15:51

Did I say I was ‘willing to risk such huge legal fees in a cost of living crisis’?

Show quote history

Yes. By contemplating doing this. No court case is a guarantee, so by default even with a good argument you are risking huge legal fees.

Original poster
Stclements115 · 10/07/2023 16:03

Kingsparkle · 10/07/2023 15:52

Ummm, yes you did OP, by discussing the possibility of taking this to court??

@Kingsparkle @Foxesandsquirrels Sorry- does asking for past experience and advice constitute me contemplating doing something? You haven’t asked for any more specifics of my situation and you’re both being really passive aggressive, it’s not helping. I was never discussing the possibility of taking this to court. I specifically asked for past experience- of which no one seems to actually have any directly, which is fine, but why are you getting passive aggressive about someone’s situation of which you know very little about? It’s weird.

OP posts:
Kingsparkle · 10/07/2023 16:06

Nah the only passive aggressive or outright aggressive person on this thread is you OP. Yes asking for people’s experience of a very specific thing to do does rather suggest you are contemplating doing it. I can only think you are tetchy because you haven’t got the answer you want, which is a way to get out of the fine.

BillyBraggisnotmylover · 10/07/2023 16:12

I’m not aware of a case where a parent has challenged the interpretation of “exceptional circumstances” OP, which I think is what you’re asking. I’m not sure whether this would be a judicial review question rather than allowing the penalty notice to escalate to court proceedings.

The most famous case in respect of attendance legislation is the Isle of Wight case which was about the definition of regular attendance so not strictly relevant to your situation

https://www.farrarsbuilding.co.uk/platt-v-isle-wight-council-2017-uksc-28/

How regular is regular? The final word in Platt v Isle of Wight Council [2017] UKSC 28 - Farrar's Building Barristers Chambers

The final round in the infamous case of Platt v Isle of Wight Council has now been decided. The result? It’s bad news for parents

https://www.farrarsbuilding.co.uk/platt-v-isle-wight-council-2017-uksc-28/

BurscoughBooths · 10/07/2023 16:14

I’ve dealt with hundreds of cases of non school attendance; I work in a magistrates court.

There’s a very small chance of a conditional discharge if you get an unusually sympathetic bench.
Likely outcome would be a band A fine (50% of your weekly income) with a third reduction for a guilty plea, plus 40% victim surcharge.
Local Authority will ask for costs which are £145 in my area.

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 16:14

Kingsparkle · 10/07/2023 16:06

Nah the only passive aggressive or outright aggressive person on this thread is you OP. Yes asking for people’s experience of a very specific thing to do does rather suggest you are contemplating doing it. I can only think you are tetchy because you haven’t got the answer you want, which is a way to get out of the fine.

Exactly. Make a thread about going to court to appeal a fine, and than say you were never contemplating on doing said appeal. Aside from not making sense, it's a waste of people's time. Why ask for advice you're not planning on using? Bizarre.

BillyBraggisnotmylover · 10/07/2023 16:14

Your local authority should have a published code of conduct outlining how it operates fixed penalty notices relating to attendance.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/07/2023 16:15

If you aren’t contemplating going to court, @Stclements115, why are you even asking this question?