Tiffin School open evening

[12345change]

Went to this yesterday - wondering what people think of the school. Aware of it's reputation for academic excellence - but the buildings and grounds seemed a bit tired and scruffy. Would be interested in others view on this school.

DC1 was at a Bromley SS grammar, DC2 at a grammar and DC3 about to start so we have had induction evenings there.

We can’t afford private. Not for one, never mind 3! Of DC1’s peers, one was intensively coached by his dad over the y5 to y6 summer holidays - no money for tutor. A large minority had parents who were EAL and struggled to converse in English. (Not a criticism, I would struggle to speak in a 2nd language too - rather to demonstrate how much harder it was for these children than some others.)Their parents worked a couple jobs each, long hours and sacrificed to get a tutor.

Obviously, there is some privilege as some families would have no spare cash at all for tuition, but in my experience, only a few parents could have afforded private and have opted for grammar.

It has been interesting being a ‘grammar’ parent. Lots of chippy comments from other parents about elitism…. But then their children applied to the Brit School at y9. Or applied for an Art scholarship at a local academy. I am not quite sure why selection on artistic, musical, dramatic talent is ok but academic ability is not.

To the OP, good luck with your choices.

"Pupils who are eligible for free school meals (FSM), a proxy for disadvantage, are under-represented in grammar schools. Only 2.5% of grammar school pupils are entitled to FSM, compared with an average of 13.2% in all state-funded secondary school"

There is still a large minority group of parents, who can afford private schools, still think superselective Grammar schools is the best education it can offer in the country.

Clever kids can probably do very well with average provision.
Surely it is the average & below average kids who need the most expert teaching to bring them on?

Grammars probably need less money because:
they won't have nearly so many children with significant SEN (but still not bad enough for EHCP) who require additional support interventions.
they can teach subjects like maths in large classes rather than needing smaller classes for more individual attention for less able kids,
They probably on average choose more academic GCSEs so the facilities for practical subjects can be less (these are very expensive).
Furthermore they have fewer kids on FSM (due to tutoring being 'needed' for many for entry, cost of travel to further away schools putting people off).

@TeenDivided

The school then is for smart kids and parents who care only for good competition and accept teachers and leadership that in some aspects don't know what they are doing. But I recon smart kids don't need to follow any consistent educational program?. Maybe that is why many of them are tutored throughout the education there...

@TheShorestAnswerIsDoing Sorry, I don't understand. Of course the school needs to work on its weak points, that's what all schools have to do.

I was responding to your comment that the 'deserve better' than 'average provision', and on the fact that grammars get less funding per head.

@sydenhamhiller

This is topic about a specific grammar and not Bromley grammar. UK is full of better and worse grammar schools. Some are great some are not. Some are superselective having 11-12 kids per one place. Some are relatively easy to get into.

@TeenDivided Grammar schools are struggling for money.

How do you rate the boys there? We went to see another super selective grammar the other day and found boys were glowing and happy. Buildings were a mixture of old and new but didn't really bother us.

So are all schools.

I’m going to say Maths can often be seen as the hardest subject

@sydenhamhiller thanks good to see that people who can’t afford private are managing to get their children into grammars. Like you we can’t afford private but fortunately the local state schools are excellent so if he doesn’t get a high enough score then that’s fine. I’m also not 100% convinced it’s the best for him need to do more thinking.

We looked around the boys' school twice and on both occasions DC absolutely hated it as did I. Not sure why. It just felt old-fashioned in the wrong way. Pupils were chanting stuff learned by rote. I didn't see much evidence of experimentation and imagination. A friend's son went there and loved it but it seemed quite restrictive to me, in a way I couldn't quite explain.

A friend's daughter went to Tiffin Girls and it seemed to be rife with eating disorders and extreme competitiveness and lots of social freezing out. She was not very happy. But I have heard this about nearly all girls' schools. Not specific to Tiffin.

Interesting you say that.. with the open day there was lots of stuff on display in terms of the boys work. I was surprised at how few activities there were for the visiting boys. Yes there were some games in the maths section and sports for the boys to try out but compared to other schools it seemed lacking.. almost like they know they don't really need to try and sell the school - as reputation is sufficient for it to be over subscribed etc.

@12345change what are the other state schools you are looking at out of interest?

More difficult for an intelligent grammar boy to get A at ...Philosophy& Ethics at GCSE than Maths

The state grammar entrance exams and overall process are skewed towards kids who can do quantifiable work really well. By necessity as there has to be a clear cut defendable and quantifiable reason why one entrant got a place over another. So unlike private selective schools they can’t take account of school report, Head’s view of child, interview and discussion of any areas that were less strong on the paper, more subjective view of essay writing etc.

Lots of people are great at numbers and essay writing/research. But not everyone great at numbers is great at both.

So I would not be surprised if all state grammar kids took say English and Maths A Level there would be more A* in the latter.

@henrypenry we are looking at TKA, Grey court and Teddington - all of which we are in the catchment for. The first two are probably are top two choices at the minute.

Grammar schools are definitely disproportionately full of more privileged kids. They are not good for social mobility.

Not to the same extent. Grammar school receiving less money per pupil. Smart kids also need educational tools, books, equipment etc.

And you are incorrect justifying it by the fact that there is less SEN children so they can receive less money. State schools receive per pupil funding and on the top of that to that they get special funds for SEN.

I may be wrong but I don't believe that schools automatically get extra money just because a child is on the SEN register (non EHCP)?

And to be honest even if they do get extra money it is very clear from posts across MN that children with SEN do not get the support they need.

To be frank, I can't get too excited if grammar schools receive less money per head. A bunch of bright children with parents who were organised and motivated enough to do the tutoring & admissions tests are already winning in life.

The vast majority of the country doesn't have or need grammar schools.

I am sorry I am unsure how it is relevant to what you said to your previous statement that more children are taking philosophy than math. Actually nobody took at GCSE philosophy in 2022. They take religious studies but that is requirement in many schools

https://www.tiffinschool.co.uk/_docs/life/exams/TIFFIN%20SCHOOL%20GCSE%20RESULTS%202022.pdf

Wow I blown away by these results. With the student intake all of them should be passing with at least a 4 in English! Surprised to see some 3 grades!

@TeenDivided

The school receives AWPU per each child regardless of the SEN( at a lower rate for grammar schools as we both know), then there is so called Notional SEN budget for each child who has a plan , but then is so called High Need Block up to £30 k and that is for children in process for SEN assesment like CAMHS.

To be frank, I can't get too excited if grammar schools receive less money per head. A bunch of bright children with parents who were organised and motivated enough to do the tutoring & admissions tests are already winning in life.

Not every parent is satisfied with that -( e.g.I do care what my bright child does at school and how good are his teachers, pastoral care and yes, he is attending tutoring since Y4 regardless of his great results at school. ) And I would be careful with that " winning". Definitely they have every chance for a better career as they were able to pass 11+ with good score. But then if you look at the GCSE results, A level results they are not all having A or A* and also not all land at the top Universities

Yes. Especially those grammars with the catchment area where you have to afford a house in the area. Also tutoring fees, but I do understand that some kids are tutored by their parents.

@12345change I don't know much about those schools. I know TKA is popular & has a tiny "catchment" for a secondary.