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Secondary education

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Original poster

Tiffin School open evening

100 replies

12345change · 05/07/2023 16:07

Went to this yesterday - wondering what people think of the school. Aware of it's reputation for academic excellence - but the buildings and grounds seemed a bit tired and scruffy. Would be interested in others view on this school.

OP posts:
henrypenry · 05/07/2023 21:05

@TheShorestAnswerIsDoing I would base my decision on a combination of results, reports, visits & talks with staff & wider community.

Internet is full of comments about poor pastoral care in both Tiffins and mental health not addressed

I'm not sure why you are telling me this? I'm not pro Tiffin. I work in schools & because of this wouldn't base my decisions just on Ofsted reports or tatty buildings. I'm not sure why those points are controversial.

ModeWeasel · 05/07/2023 21:11

I also went and really liked the school. The teachers I spoke to sounded like they knew how to get the best out of bright kids. I also liked the mixed sixth form. I know Wilsons progress score is 1 so it’s certainly possible to have high achieving intake and strong progress. But Tiffin score is still good.

How do other local mixed state schools fare when progress scores are categorised by sex? Or by prior attainment? This would be a fairer comparison.

Interesting about comparing the exam results with other schools. Of the SW super selective grammars I found Tiffins strongest on humanities, and some exceedingly STEM focused. Are they taking the same range of subjects? Half Tiffin kids do philosophy at GCSE I think.

Might be more difficult for typical boys grammar student to get an A in that than say maths. Plus some of the schools which live or die by being top of the tables can be unnecessarily strict re: who gets to do certain subjects. Not always in students’ best interests.

Original poster
12345change · 05/07/2023 21:13

@henrypenry I too work in education, a college so I’m very familiar with the pros and cons of Ofsted. And I believe resources matter. Obviously the teachers and support staff are the most important asset of a school/college but resources come a close second. So when comparing schools I’m bothered by tatty buildings, without dated IT equipment.

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MintyIguana · 05/07/2023 21:16

My BIL's kids went there. Did very well indeed but they're exceptionally bright kids. Apparently the teaching is completely average.

Original poster
12345change · 05/07/2023 21:21

@ModeWeasel I liked aspects of it but was disappointed I guess. Don’t agree that the progress score is good it’s 0.47 which is very low indeed… TKA the local state academy has a progress score of 0.96 by comparison.

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TheShorestAnswerIsDoing · 05/07/2023 21:23

I perhaps jumped to the conclusion that you will talk about pastoral care because this is what people often mention as very important :) sorry for my too quick assumption:)

We all have access to the results.
I personally think that teachers are trained on strategic marketing goals of the school and will not tell you anything genuine. Most of parents in thoseschool are part of the "prestige team". However, I had some interesting insight from one parent at Tiffin girls.

henrypenry · 05/07/2023 21:24

As I've already said you're entitled to your own opinion....

I would imagine the vast majority of dc who attend Tiffin have access to great resources at home so perhaps parents who like Tiffin are less bothered by that.

HipTightOnions · 05/07/2023 21:25

Don’t agree that the progress score is good it’s 0.47 which is very low indeed…

It's really hard to get a high value-added at a very selective school.

If the kids are entering with achievement at the very highest levels, they have to get GCSEs at the very highest level just to get VA of zero. If they are expected to get all 9s, they can't get any higher!

MintyIguana · 05/07/2023 21:29

These are kids who are exceptionally well supported at home. If they weren't they would never have gained a place. So they are surely going to do very well regardless of the school they go to.

henrypenry · 05/07/2023 21:34

I perhaps jumped to the conclusion that you will talk about pastoral care because this is what people often mention as very important :) sorry for my too quick assumption:)

I have no idea about the pastoral care, I've never attended an open day there & my daughters won't be going there.

What I have done is worked in outstanding & inadequate schools both state & private & been involved with Ofsted visits myself. I also have lots of family & friends in the world of education. There are a number of things I would consider when choosing a school.

Boomboom22 · 05/07/2023 21:39

As a teacher this sounds mad. Surely a progress 8 score of 0 in most schools is good unless they are selecting out all sen students who are often less likley to stay at the level of primary, all the schools round this way are -0.4 which is shit, the grammars go from -0.07 to plus 0.03.

Boomboom22 · 05/07/2023 21:40

Also I don't see smart boards contributing to teaching in any way. Laptops yes. Smart boards not really, don't see what's wrong with a whiteboard and Google classroom for interactive stuff.

TheShorestAnswerIsDoing · 05/07/2023 21:41

Might be more difficult for typical boys grammar student to get an A in that than say maths.

More difficult for an intelligent grammar boy to get A at ...Philosophy& Ethics at GCSE than Maths? 😃

PreplexJ · 05/07/2023 21:42

ModeWeasel · 05/07/2023 21:11

I also went and really liked the school. The teachers I spoke to sounded like they knew how to get the best out of bright kids. I also liked the mixed sixth form. I know Wilsons progress score is 1 so it’s certainly possible to have high achieving intake and strong progress. But Tiffin score is still good.

How do other local mixed state schools fare when progress scores are categorised by sex? Or by prior attainment? This would be a fairer comparison.

Interesting about comparing the exam results with other schools. Of the SW super selective grammars I found Tiffins strongest on humanities, and some exceedingly STEM focused. Are they taking the same range of subjects? Half Tiffin kids do philosophy at GCSE I think.

Might be more difficult for typical boys grammar student to get an A in that than say maths. Plus some of the schools which live or die by being top of the tables can be unnecessarily strict re: who gets to do certain subjects. Not always in students’ best interests.

“Might be more difficult for typical boys grammar student to get an A in that than say maths. Plus some of the schools which live or die by being top of the tables can be unnecessarily strict re: who gets to do certain subjects. Not always in students’ best interests.”

For GCSE level this is probably not a really important factor, English Language, English Literature, Mathematics, Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Modern Foreign Language (MFL) are compulsory subjects and if you look attainment 8 measure Tiffin boys is also outranked.

henrypenry · 05/07/2023 21:42

I personally think that teachers are trained on strategic marketing goals of the school and will not tell you anything genuine

That's true for most schools but what I mean is I would be talking to contacts I know. I live in SW London, was born & educated here & education can be a small world. Between myself & my siblings we have experience of private, grammar & faith schools in the area 😆 & the popular ones haven't changed much.
I actually have a former colleague at Tiffin but apart from knowing she likes it I haven't drilled down because it's not on my radar.

henrypenry · 05/07/2023 21:43

It's really hard to get a high value-added at a very selective school.

exactly, this is a fact.

TheShorestAnswerIsDoing · 05/07/2023 22:01

@henrypenry

I am afraid most of us doesn't know former teachers like you do. And for us it would be relying on people who are part of the system and are therefore part of the same marketing program

Whatames · 05/07/2023 22:11

Just as a bench mark the completely non selective state comp I teach at has a progress score of 0.5. I would expect a selective school to have a much higher progress score

henrypenry · 05/07/2023 22:12

Of course, but you were the one who asked me how I would chose a school 😆

PreplexJ · 05/07/2023 22:26

TheShorestAnswerIsDoing · 05/07/2023 21:41

Might be more difficult for typical boys grammar student to get an A in that than say maths.

More difficult for an intelligent grammar boy to get A at ...Philosophy& Ethics at GCSE than Maths? 😃

A lot of great Philosophers are Mathematicians.

Original poster
12345change · 05/07/2023 22:30

henrypenry · 05/07/2023 21:24

As I've already said you're entitled to your own opinion....

I would imagine the vast majority of dc who attend Tiffin have access to great resources at home so perhaps parents who like Tiffin are less bothered by that.

That’s a massive assumption but I guess you’re entitled to make them…

OP posts:
Original poster
12345change · 05/07/2023 22:39

HipTightOnions · 05/07/2023 21:25

Don’t agree that the progress score is good it’s 0.47 which is very low indeed…

It's really hard to get a high value-added at a very selective school.

If the kids are entering with achievement at the very highest levels, they have to get GCSEs at the very highest level just to get VA of zero. If they are expected to get all 9s, they can't get any higher!

Didn’t someone on the thread say Wilson got a progress score of 1… so it is possible. Suggesting the teaching isn’t adding that much value.

OP posts:
TheShorestAnswerIsDoing · 05/07/2023 22:47

@PreplexJ

Historically.
and historically they were not only mathematicians, philosophers but also astrologers and alchemists...

henrypenry · 06/07/2023 05:10

That’s a massive assumption but I guess you’re entitled to make them…

Do you think so? Ime the dc who get into London grammar's tend to come from the more privileged backgrounds.

Original poster
12345change · 06/07/2023 07:11

henrypenry · 06/07/2023 05:10

That’s a massive assumption but I guess you’re entitled to make them…

Do you think so? Ime the dc who get into London grammar's tend to come from the more privileged backgrounds.

I personally don't know enough about London grammar schools - but certainly I can believe what you say when it comes to the grammar schools that you have to pay for like KGS. But from my experience Tiffin attracts many who couldn't even dream of paying privately which is why the intake may be different. I frankly don't know, however, as it could be only the privileged have enough resources to get the support to pass the entrance exam. Anyway for my child it's probably all irrelevant anyway as his chances of getting in if we bother with it all are probably quite small.

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