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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Mixed or single sex ?

30 replies

YellowRoseinMay · 14/04/2023 19:17

I am undecided as to whether or not we have done the right thing. DD passed her 11 plus and has a place at a mixed grammar approx a 45 minute journey away by bus (I will take her on my non working days)
However all of her friends have accepted places at our nearest all girls comp, which has good results and is local. DD has gone from being over the moon at passing her 11 plus to now saying when she saw her friends over half term they were all talking about how great the all girls was and how sad she is she isn’t going. We were so proud when she got her grammar place , she loved it at open day and is excited about all the subjects they offer but I must admit I am now having doubts that all girls may fit her better and be an easier transition . Don’t know whether or not I need to try and get her on a waiting list for it . Argh .
Is it usual to be having these wobbles ?! I don’t think she’s going to know anyone going at the moment, there is an induction day in July so we are hoping she meets people then.

OP posts:
HawaiiWake · 14/04/2023 20:03

Secondary school and larger groups of kids and new friends. Primary school going to next school doesn’t mean they will stay in the same friendship groups. Also, easier to keep in touch with primary school friends nowadays.

LeilaLeilaLeila · 14/04/2023 20:40

For secondary stage - I prefer girls only!

Lolaandbehold · 14/04/2023 21:45

For boys I like mixed, girls - single sex.

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 14/04/2023 21:50

Girls in single sex do better at STEM and are more likely to continue.

HawaiiWake · 15/04/2023 10:13

Go for the best school fit for your DC. If STEM, it is not about coed or single sex but numbers are there only 5 kids doing A Levels Physics or 20.
Check Kings Free Maths School, London only sixth form A levels and they get surpassed fee paying and grammar. They select on ability and not just GCSEs and give free Maths questions. It is about the school and teachers not gender.

crazycrofter · 15/04/2023 10:54

This isn't really about single sex vs mixed - it's about grammar vs comp and travelling to school vs local school.

She shouldn't worry too much about not going up with her friends, as it's likely that most of the kids at the grammar will only know one or two others, or maybe none at all. My two both went to (selective) schools without knowing anyone -well, dd knew one girl from toddler days, but they hadn't really seen each other more than once or twice since then! Both my children settled in quickly and made friends, even though they didn't particularly meet anyone/make contacts on their induction days.

In terms of the travel -is it one bus? Is it a school bus or public transport? Travelling can be a great way for kids to make friends.

Personally I do quite like single sex, but it's not the main consideration in your case. And both my children moved for sixth form, to mixed schools.

I would start with the grammar, as it's more likely that she'll be able to change and move to the girls school if she doesn't settle - unless it has a massive waiting list?

ajenniejonesworld · 15/04/2023 11:21

I'm wondering if you live near me where we have a very popular girls school but then a great mixed grammar (very liberal, not a hot house) in the neighbouring borough.

I have DSs so can only go by friend's experiences.
I know a lot of girls that go to our girls school. Most love it. But a few have moved to one of the coed comps as they didn't get on in that environment. I understand one of the issues was a poor sports department. There is also a lot of gender questioning / trans stuff that some are lapping up but others very much not.

Most of the kids I know who've gone to the grammar love it, and the bust journey doesn't phase them at all. But I do know one girl who's unhappy, I think because she's missing her old friends who mainly went to the local girls school.

TJsAunt · 16/04/2023 18:56

We chose a mixed school for dd (and single sex for ds!) because we felt those were the right schools for them.

dd is bright and a hard worker but prone to getting stressed. we felt an all girls school would intensify that stress. A mixed school would be more relaxed and she would do well more easily as the alpha girls would be diluted by the boys' presence. It worked in that her stress levels have generally been manageable and she still got amazing GCSE results.

She has chosen maths plus 2 humanities at A level. She could not be shifted (despite getting 9's in all her sciences) to choosing any science A levels. While some of her female friends did choose science, the take up generally was lower than at all girls schools....

So? Not sure where I stand on your dilemma! If you chose the school because it was exciting and you felt coed would suit her then stick to it?

If the single sex comp has a significantly higher % of girls taking STEM A levels then maybe review the situation? But I wuolnd't be swayed by friendships at that age - they're very temporary.

twistyizzy · 17/04/2023 10:54

We had choice of either single sex private or mixed private. We chose mixed sex even though we know girls do better in single sex. Navigating the opposite sex is a vital skill in life and I didn't want DD to go to Uni never having encountered boys on a day to day basis (only child and no male cousins etc).
We will just have to make the extra effort to put forwards strong female role models and be more vigilant to prepare her for how to deal with teenage boys but by choosing private she is already going to be fairly sheltered so we didn't want her to be in a complete bubble all through adolescence only for that to be shattered at Uni and her not have the skills to deal with it.

LittleBearPad · 19/04/2023 21:59

Lolaandbehold · 14/04/2023 21:45

For boys I like mixed, girls - single sex.

Which isn’t practically going to work, is it.

Lolaandbehold · 20/04/2023 06:54

LittleBearPad · 19/04/2023 21:59

Which isn’t practically going to work, is it.

Show quote history

In general it works, well depending on location, given we have both mixed and Co-Ed schools in the UK. I have lots of friends who send their girls to single sex secondary schools and their sons Co-Ed. And vice versa, to be fair, everyone has a different perspective on these things.
But this is my big city perspective; I understand that the same breath of choice may not be available in more rural areas.

LittleBearPad · 20/04/2023 19:15

Lolaandbehold · 20/04/2023 06:54

In general it works, well depending on location, given we have both mixed and Co-Ed schools in the UK. I have lots of friends who send their girls to single sex secondary schools and their sons Co-Ed. And vice versa, to be fair, everyone has a different perspective on these things.
But this is my big city perspective; I understand that the same breath of choice may not be available in more rural areas.

Show quote history

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying.

You cannot have single sex for girls and mixed for boys, or not without a lot of people sending their daughters to your son’s mixed school to facilitate his co-Ed education, which you wouldn’t choose to do but choose to benefit from.

Rural or urban is irrelevant

GoldenCagedBird · 20/04/2023 19:18

LittleBearPad · 20/04/2023 19:15

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying.

You cannot have single sex for girls and mixed for boys, or not without a lot of people sending their daughters to your son’s mixed school to facilitate his co-Ed education, which you wouldn’t choose to do but choose to benefit from.

Rural or urban is irrelevant

Show quote history

I don’t think you understand what the the poster is saying

we have single sex for boys, single sex for girls and mixed. All exist. All are an option.

the poster I imagine is making the decision based on the evidence which suggests that boys do better at mixed, girls at single sex.

I don’t think she was designing her dream school system….she was commenting on what was on offer

i don’t really understand what you are saying if you can’t see that

LittleBearPad · 20/04/2023 19:46

GoldenCagedBird · 20/04/2023 19:18

I don’t think you understand what the the poster is saying

we have single sex for boys, single sex for girls and mixed. All exist. All are an option.

the poster I imagine is making the decision based on the evidence which suggests that boys do better at mixed, girls at single sex.

I don’t think she was designing her dream school system….she was commenting on what was on offer

i don’t really understand what you are saying if you can’t see that

Show quote history

No I understand what they are saying. I simply think their position is rather selfish.

Iwasafool · 20/04/2023 19:54

I did single sex and mixed with mine, I think the ones who went to a mixed school had a more rounded experience and I think it was good for my daughter, she definitely learned to hold her own with the boys. I went to a single sex school and we were much more obsessed with boys than the girls who had to put up with them all day.

I think your post is more about her being with her friends that the school being single sex, is that right? My son and his best friend since they were 4 went to the same grammar school, were put in separate forms and basically had nothing to do with each other for 7 years. They teemed up again at 18 and 20 years later are still best friends. One of the great things about senior school is mixing with new people and making new friends.

Lolaandbehold · 21/04/2023 11:37

LittleBearPad · 20/04/2023 19:15

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying.

You cannot have single sex for girls and mixed for boys, or not without a lot of people sending their daughters to your son’s mixed school to facilitate his co-Ed education, which you wouldn’t choose to do but choose to benefit from.

Rural or urban is irrelevant

Show quote history

I see what you mean. I’m often surprised why people send girls to a mixed school given the choice of single sex but it’s just a personal opinion. A lot of people would argue for co-ed however, including parents of girls. The fact that I think girls have better outcomes in single sex schools is irrelevant to other people’s decision making process, or indeed that I’m sending my theoretical son to a co-ed school because I think he will do better with their daughters in his class despite the fact that I wouldn’t send my own daughter to the same establishment because I think her outcome would be worse.
Either way for me it’s moot as I don’t have boys but I won’t@ even consider a co-ed school for secondary for my girls. Perhaps for 6th form, but those formative early teenage years will be in a single sex school where girls aren’t put off STEM or sport. I could of course be way off but you do what you think is best for your children/family with the information you have at the time. That’s how I look at it anyway.

Gloschick · 21/04/2023 11:52

What was your reasoning for going down the 11+ route?
If the only reason you are concerned about the local option is the single sex nature, then I wouldn't worry about that and just go for it. Local schools are great for socialising, clubs etc. There are plenty of advantages of an all girls school. I would only go for the grammar if you don't feel the comp will stretch your daughter enough.

TizerorFizz · 21/04/2023 15:39

@YellowRoseinMay
As they come to the end of y6, reality starts to set in. My DD went boarding after y6 at state primary. No one else was going. She couldn’t join in the chat about the two schools others were going to. However the draw of her new school remained very strong.

I would suggest you remind her of everything you all liked about the grammar. It’s obviously what you wanted just a few months ago. I would stay focussed and see how she gets on. New friends will be made. You might find they too are 45 mins away! You need to be very accommodating in this and stay positive. Remind her how well she has done and give the grammar a go.

thing47 · 21/04/2023 18:38

The fact that I think girls have better outcomes in single sex schools is irrelevant to other people’s decision making process

You are correct to say that girls generally have better academic outcomes in single-sex schools, there is a lot of data to support this.

As to whether they have better social outcomes, that is much less clear-cut. When there are threads specifically on this subject on MN, opinions are very much divided between those who loved all-girls education and those who hated it.

HawaiiWake · 21/04/2023 22:40

Single sex vs coed recent data is lacking, anything over 5 years is not relevant and small sample size is not statistically accurate. So base decision on actual school and DC fit.

TizerorFizz · 21/04/2023 23:05

Social outcomes are not just down to school though. Many other influences and factors come into play. No one spends every day or waking hour at school.

thing47 · 21/04/2023 23:17

Oh absolutely @TizerorFizz, that's probably why the data is not clear-cut, it's very difficult to separate out the influence of the school per se from all the other factors that come into play.

puffyisgood · 22/04/2023 09:24

as others have said, by far the biggest considerations here seem to be grammar vs comp (possibly, depending on geography -maybe this grammar is too far away to impact on local comps?, grammar vs secondary modern) and journey time.

my personal instinct would always be to take a grammar place if available (I don't love the grammar system, but if, as it often does, it boils down to choosing between a grammar and a secondary modern then that's no choice) and to prefer co-ed over single sex (I don't for a minute believe that the academic evidence on results is clear cut and it's just my hunch that co-ed is better for socialisation).

but the additional travel time described here certainly isn't to be dismissed. it's real dead time and has implications for future friendship groups and so on. if we're talking 45 minutes vs 10 minutes then the comp starts to look quite attractive to me, if it's decent. 45 vs say 25 would be another matter. the primary school friends aren't irrelevant but aren't crucial imo - they're imo equivalent to at most a 5 minutes each way time facing, whereas I'd tend to put grammar vs comp/modern as being worth at the very least 15 minutes each way.

puffyisgood · 22/04/2023 09:25
  • time saving, not time facing