Central London Secondary Schools - Grammar?

[Schoolhelp23]

Hi,

Had planned to move out of central London but due to a change of circumstances, will be staying, so now considering schools (DD only in Y4). I think the 1st choice would be Grey Coat, but a colleague has told me that I should consider grammar schools, even if she has to travel a little to attend. Does anyone have any experience of their child attending a grammar school that wasn't particularly close to them geographically (if from Central London, all the better)?! I know most have catchment areas, but I'm aware some do not. Also, if anyone can recommend any great central London comprehensives!

Dame Alice Owen in Hertfordshire does places for Islington residents. It’s similar but not quite a grammar school as intake is mainly 11+, music talent places and a tiny amount of local (think 300m from the gates) but gets outstanding results.

Are you thinking of moving within London for a secondary school place? Otherwise I think your options will be limited to where you are currently within catchment, though some schools do reserve a few places for achievement in music, art or academics (for instance, Holland Park has art places). I think most mixed and girls grammar schools in London have catchment areas, but depending on where you live you might be within some.

I've heard that Bexley grammars and some Sutton ones do not have catchment areas. Also Chelmsford High School for Girls reserves 20% for out of catchment. But these all may be too far away from you, I wouldn't underestimate how tiring a long commute can be.

Yes that's the problem. I hadn't really considered them as an option due to the commute (we are Southbank, so Waterloo/Blackfriars are our closest stations), but now thinking maybe I shouldn't rule it out completely as my daughter is very academic, and wondered if anyone had a similar experience. As an example, Henrietta Barnett is approx 50 mins door to door, which on dark winter mornings I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with - plus the risk of tubes/trains not running etc.

Sorry, didn't answer the question - no, won't be moving, so the commute would be from Southbank area.

I have a son, who is not at grammar school but does travel six miles from central London for school. I wouldn’t just look at journey time, but also ease of commute. His journey is 40 minutes door to door, but with minimal walks at either end and back up routes on different train lines and even a bus option for when things go wrong. The commute has been fine for him.

Eleven Plus Exam forums are your best bets for info on which grammar schools your daughter may have access too. I would have thought the Kent and Sutton schools would be a better bet from your location. I know Henrietta Barnett is great, but there isn’t a station close by which would make it a tough commute, particularly if you meet the admission criteria for Grey Coat.

Chelmsford County High School for Girls does not reserve places for girls living outside the 12.5 mile radius priority area. After LAC / PLAC / EHCP, it admits firstly, on score, from within the priority area, giving first priority to girls on pupil premium, then for the last 36 places, on score, regardless of place of residence. So although it is unlikely, it is possible that no places at all are allocated OOC (apart from any OOC girls with an EHCP naming the school, or who are LAC / PLAC).

(Colchester County High School for Girls has no catchment area, but it is also a totally bonkers journey, in terms of both distance and complexity, for any sane resident of Central London to contemplate for their DD. Chelmsford County High is at least a fairly short and level walk from the nearest railway station).

Yes, I'm starting to think that it's just too difficult. Thanks for your comments.

If anyone has any experience of Grey Coats or any other good central London school, it would be great to have any info!

Sutton grammars - Nonsuch and Wallington should be possible from Southbank.

You could consider Tonbridge Grammar. 40 mins from Waterloo East. While it would be unusual to attend there from Central London, the journey time would be unremarkable (girls travel from all over - I used to commute it from the Surrey border when I was 11, which took way longer than it would from London).

Will you and your daughter meet the admission requirement of weekly church attendance for five years by the time of application?

@LadyLapsang Hi - Around 3.5 years, before that I had caring responsibilties so didn't go as often (plus it was a different church). Do you have children who attend Grey Coats?

Newstead Wood in Orpington is super selective girls only grammar. It's about 10 minutes
From Orpington Station and Orpington is about 20 minutes from Waterloo East. Emma Raducanu went there.

I believe Newstead has a distance criterion though whereas Tonbridge Grammar doesn't (for applicants outside Tonbridge area).

Graveney has a grammar stream and should be feasible from Southbank.

DD does a 90 minute commute each way for secondary and it's only a pain when there are train strikes.

But... her commute is a short walk, hour on train, switch platform and another 20 mins on train and then a final 3 minute walk. It makes a huge difference having the hour on one train with guaranteed seat, wifi and being able to get homework and revision done. Plus, our nearest (terrible) school was 45 minutes away which included a 20 minute uphill walk.

We were after music specialism schools, so I basically made a spreadsheet of every school with music places that removed catchment/distance from the equation, and then worked out the transport routes to get to them.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow Will take a look. How does your daughter find the commute? Has she done it on her own since she started there?

DD is at Kingsdale not Graveney.

She's pretty happy with the commute - rarely any moaning. I took her and collected her the first day of Y7 and have been banned ever since!

Never been any issues, but she was already used to commuting into London as she stayed at her London primary when we moved out and we were all travelling in together.

She does a lot of extracurricular music after school which is London based so she'd be travelling there even if she was at school locally. She signs up for plenty of after-school clubs too.

Her morning trains all have loads of school children going to different schools so plenty of company, and the train/station staff all know her and there's no issues the day she forgets her travel pass etc.

Having the rail pass means she goes into London at weekends and holidays to see her friends now and is very independent (paranoid parents have trackers on her phone so we can keep an eye on where she is).

In Y6 I wasn't sure she'd ever be able to cross a road by herself, 12 months later I was quite happy for her to go into central London on her own.

Yes Newstead has a 9 mile catchment. DD is at the school. She has classmates from Greenwich which is about the limits of the catchment.

Tonbridge out of county places require a very high score in the Kent test. Dartford Girls Grammar also have similar out of county places,

Bexley has no distance requirement for those who score in the top 180.

I second the recommendation of the elevenplusexams forum.

I commuted 90 mins (two trains plus walks ) each way to a Kent grammar school from Y7-Y13. So 3hrs+ every day. It was exhausting, my friends lived miles away, I did no other activities as there was no time. I look back on those years & am shocked my parents thought it was OK! That they never considered moving house?! DH also endured long bus commutes. Because of that, we moved heaven & earth to give our own kids less travel time (not hard)

Ah yes, the not unreasonable suggestion that if parents are so keen on a school miles away for their DC, perhaps they should move to the area and transfer the burden of a commute to the grown-ups. Often asked (especially on the elevenplusexams forum, where bonkers journeys seem to be de rigeur for some schools). Usually countered by some reason (excuse?) as to why this really couldn't be done.

Obviously I have no idea what your family's personal circumstances were, but where grammar schools are concerned, some parents genuinely seem to believe that the only thing that matters is what happens between morning registration and the afternoon dismissal bell. No consideration that their DC might like to go to an after school club, try out for a sports team, or (probably especially not) just hang out in the local library or a cafe with their school friends to 'decompress' at the end of the academic day.

There is more to school than the formal lessons contained within the bare bones of the school day - as many people, students and parents alike, came to realise as a result of the restrictions imposed from March 2020.

I agree with @MarchingFrogs. I think you’d be mad to make your daughter do any of the commutes suggested. I’m not clear why a colleague’s random comment has thrown you so much. Grey Coats is a fantastic school. London is awash with good schools.

Thanks all. Was just something that I hadn't considered, for all of the reasons mentioned, and didn't want to immediately dismiss.

People do commute to Kent and Sutton Grammars from Waterloo East or Victoria. It also used to be a feasible journey to Tiffin before they introduced a catchment. People also commute some way to private schools, eg Whitgift. Journey times are what matters (look at TfLs journey planner), as well as the number of changes. No more than two…bus and train, or two trains etc. It also helps is there are different ways to get there, in case of strikes or roadworks. (Do they ever finish roadworks on Horseferry Road…it’s been decades.) And if you are commuting against traffic, so get a seat and can do your homework.

Ideally no more than 40 mins. DD found that routes out of central London were good so her journey, even though further than those relying on a once an hour suburban bus, was easier.

And be careful about options. Avoid having to carry art folders, or hockey goalkeeping kit or tubas. DD put her own schedule up on the inside of the front door. Wednesday was a four bag day. I used to meet her from the tube.

Tiffin? If you think DD has a chance in the hideous competition for entry…

It’s also worth having a try at Camden SG, although you would probably end up on waiting list as so far away, it does move so you never know.

When I say far away, I mean in catchment terms. It’s not a tricky or especially long journey from Waterloo!