Another secondary appeal

[HighHeelsHurt]

Hi
There has been great advice on here that has helped me form an appeal.

I was wondering if the experts on here could help me with the questions to put to the school during the panel. I have been rejected on distance. I am asking the panel for the school to go over PAN. They are not currently over PAN in any years.

Basis of appeal
DD has SEND and EP reports suggests assistive technology should be used to support her. Appealed school offers iPads to assist learning. Offered school does not.
EP report suggests DD is encouraged to peruse things she feels she is good add to boost self esteem. Appealed schools had an Arts specialism. DD performs (to a pretty high standard- comps etc) in extra curricular clubs. Appealed school offers different (more specific) GCSEs and BTEC in the arts that she would like to study.
DD rides horses. Appealed school offers horse riding assessment at GCSE as part of PE.
DD has studied a language outside school since reception. The appealed school offers enrichment clubs around this language, the offered school does not (although offers the language at GCSE).

I have supporting letters from her Headteacher suggesting she would benefit from being at the school, 2 EP reports (one from year 3 one from year 6) confirming SEND and recommendations that the appealed school can accommodate, a letter of support from her Language teacher and a letter of support from the Principle in the arts.

I assume the school are going to say they can’t accommodate her as it can’t got over PAN. Is there something I can ask about safeguarding concerns so I can debunk them? Ie how many accidents have been experienced in hallways due to overcrowding? Am I clutching at straws? I don’t know how I can prove they can accommodate her if they say they can’t? I have asked the school if any expansion in the last 5 years. They confirmed they have updated facilities, but not classrooms.

Or

Do I just let them present their case- I present mine and expect the panel to weigh these things up?

I’m curious if the experts have a view on the strength of my case?

Thanks so much

No EHCP?

No- it was never suggested to me she would need one so we have never considered it. She has many interventions, but copes very well at Primary School. But she gets lots of help externally to keep up with her peers so I fear we have masked her struggles in trying very hard to support her.

I think you have a decent case - there are several reasonable points here - but, as always, so much depends on the strength of the school’s case for not admitting.

The weakness is that you don’t (as I read it) have a letter from the EP saying that in their professional opinion your child needs a place at this school and will be disadvantaged if they don’t attend. A report outlining their needs and your arguing that the preferred school is best to meet those needs doesn’t have the same strength.

The question about accidents in hallways etc works best (in my view) when the school is already over PAN. Typically, the school will argue that it would be unsafe to admit beyond PAN, and then sometimes the parent will point out that the school is already over PAN in one or more year groups and ask what incidents that has caused. That’s not the scenario here.

@PanelChair thanks for responding.

Yes I did wonder if I’m trying to question the capacity of the school I could be strengthening their case so probably best not to go down that route.

On the government website it says I was rejected on distance. Will I get further information as to their case? They are an academy and so I had to submit all my docs to them to pass on to the panel. I have stage 1 booked. I assume this is when I hear their case against me, but I understand this is to be held with other parents. Then we go on to stage 2.

I have laid out my appeal in my letter so am slightly concerned I have nothing to add in the appeal itself. I’m very nervous about it and it says I have an opportunity to question the school. I have nothing really to ask though.

No the EP did not mention the school specifically, only her primary Headmistress said she would benefit from this school. I’m hoping there are key words she put in the letter that subconsciously tells the panel to approve my appeal!! I could prob ask for the school to be specified as have a great relationship with all the supporters. However, as her EP is very much based on quite common SEND I’m not sure I’m comfortable/it’s is fair to ask that of her. If she felt that she would have put it in there herself.

There are other aspects- travelling with her sister, Irene syndrome etc and all the other low level things that are often mentioned. I haven’t used those as my case as I wasn’t sure they add too much, but do all these things add up to a better case?

Thankfully I am ok with her going to her offered school, she is v resilient and we will make the best of whatever we’ve got. I just truly believe this school offers her all the attributes she needs to thrive educationally.

You will probably have to ask for more information - your admissions category, last distance allocated, your measured distance and so on.

@LIZS thanks for these suggestions. In your opinion should I ask this in the appeal stage 1 or is this information I should ask the academy prior to that meeting? The receptionist at the school is sick of the back teeth of me!

If you have missed out because of distance, it’s always worth double-checking that the school’s measurement is reasonable. You can’t substitute a measurement of your own from Google maps etc, but ask the school to confirm your home/school distance and the distance at which the last place was awarded. You can do that now.

The “quite common SEND” are likely to be pivotal to whether the panel allows the appeal. The school’s argument is likely to be that all schools can cater for a diverse range of SEND and they’re no better placed to support your child than the allocated school would be. The panel might agree with that, which is why the other points about riding, arts and language provision will help strengthen your argument.

OP, I think you were spot on with the idea that you should just present your case and allow the school to present theirs. The issues caused by going over PAN are much wider than the physical crowding, especially at secondary school.

@sylentwidnes @PanelChair

thanks for taking the time to reply and offer advice. I will update the thread after my Stage 1 as I’ve found previous ones invaluable.

And @LIZS thanks for taking the time to help!

Just a point on a grouped Stage One - stage one is not about your specific appeal, it will be about the school giving their general case that they are at PAN and cannot take any other pupils whoever they are. Given there are a number of appeallants, there is often a grouped stage one where the school presents it's general overall case for being full, so all parents can hear the case together and ask questions about the overall case.

This is the point at which to raise questions about their general case, in terms of sizes of classrooms for example, average class sizes, are any other years over PAN (always worth asking on the day to make sure the numbers are up to date). This is not the time to ask or bring up anything specific about your case. So don't get into your questions about your distance etc at this stage. The school should not comment on individual appeals at this point either.

If the panel decide at this point that the school absolutely cannot take any more pupils at all, then the school has won the appeals and the stage 2 parts will not happen. This is very rare; normally what happens is the panel agree that the school has not made a sufficient case that it cannot take any more pupils at all. If the panel then agree that that school can take all the appeallants without causing undue prejudice to the school, then all appeals are won at that point. This is also rare!

What normally happens is that the panel decide after Stage One that the school hasn't shown absolute prejudice, so the stage 2 parts progress, and at the end the panel will decide which cases outweigh the school's case in terms of prejudice. They will hear all appeals before deciding.

@PatriciaHolm thanks so much for such a detailed reply. I have read all the documents and leaflets sent over to me but they haven’t explained it as well as you just have.

Ok - I guess I am now as prepared as I’m ever going to be. Thanks again for your help.

Hi,

I have my appeal this week and have just received a 12 page document from the school regarding its prejudice statements. I will try and highlight the more pertinent points and am pleading with anyone to help with trying to ask the right questions. We have 38 parents appealing.

'A carefully planned growth strategy to date, has allowed the school to to admit 270 students *30 over PAN over the last few years, but (a new school) is now established nearby and the first choice numbers are declining and therefore in order to maintain at least 'Good' level of provision, we will be offering a PAN of 240 in 2023....

Our buildings are not up to modern building standards, although carefully maintained. Planned curriculum and staff and rooming is in place for 240 students. Recruiting for staff of over 240 is exceptional and would mean split classes and non specialist teachers. The prejudice is as follows:

1. Exceeding recommened class size in DT (recommended 20 students by the DATA design and technology association)
2. As above in science - recommended 24 and are planned for 30
3. prejudicing effective delivery of English, Maths and Science
4. prejudice to effective teaching and catch up support
5. increasing tutor group sizes over max of 30
6. prejudice to changing rooms in gym
7. health and safety in corridor and circulation
8. increasing pressure on toilet facilities
9. prejudging the effective use of the new dining facilities
10. pressure on the whole school and its community as more space needed

They go on to evidence each point.

They then cite Havering vs Kinsley 2007 'An ability to cope as best one can in a class with too many pupils is not the same as saying there is no prejudice arising from the addition of another pupil'

Ummmmm.......

So I obviously need to go on Ofstead to see what I can pick out. The school it rated good with special mention on English and maths attainment and SEN support making a noticeable difference to the pupils
Have they reduce the number of staff count due to the reduction in PAN?
Evidence of health and safety being breached?

Any other thoughts of what I could be asking?

@PanelChair @PatriciaHolm @LIZS @sylentwidnes

It sounds as though the school has a 240 PAN but has had “bulge” classes for the past few years. Do they specify number of children in each year group? Tagging @prh47bridge as they are very knowledgeable in this area.

Also @Postapocalypticcowgirl any thoughts?

@SuperSue77 as ever thanks for the help!

it’s a bit strange how they have worded it. ‘For years we have asked the LA to admit 30 over PAN (PAN 240) due to volume of applicants as shown in the table below. (Proof of 5 years of PAN at 270).

The new school that’s opened (which is under the same trust and on the same campus) has an PAN of 180 (always over subscribed too) and so the additional places means they have gone to PAN240. The new school has been open for 2 years - this intake being it’s 3rd.

so not sure the intake of 270 can be classed as a bulge as it’s being historically they have accepted for the last 5 years?

Maybe not a bulge as you say and they got LA to agree to reduce PAN but they can’t argue they don’t have capacity for extra pupils as they have proved in the past that they can accommodate that many. No wonder they have so many appeals!!

My guess is that this was several years of bulge classes, to cater for demand without having to go through the formal consultation process required for raising and later lowering the PAN.

Much will depend on how credible the panel finds the evidence put forward for each of those 10 points. Be careful of how you use the Ofsted report; as you say, attainment in maths and English is good but that is exactly what the school will argue will be at risk if they have to go above PAN (their point 4). Be careful too about arguing that they could manage at PAN+30 so could cope with PAN+1, as (the school will argue and the panel might agree) organising another class is not the same as fitting an extra pupil into an existing class.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but do you have figures for pupils in each year group? If there is any year group above PAN, that supports your argument that the school can manage.

Offhand, I don’t recognise the case the school is citing. At one level, it’s stating the obvious - being able to cope with additional pupils isn’t the same as there being no prejudice - but it’s also misrepresenting the purpose of the appeal. The panel doesn’t have to conclude that there’s no prejudice to the school in admitting additional pupils. For you to win, the panel has to conclude that whatever prejudice there may be is outweighed by the prejudice to your child if they don’t get a place.

@PanelChair they are not above PAN in any year group - it’s 270 per year.

In your opinion is this a strong case? I’m not sure I am going to articulate this well but if they have managed bulge years for the last 5 years, had no change to staffing levels (decreasing), made updates to facilities (new sports hall and dining room) AND their results have increased year on year then what evidence are they using to state so factually that teaching will be diminished with a PAN of 270? What criteria/evidence would they have used to come to that decision? I completely get that it would be better to have smaller classes (surely one of the main factors in the success of private schools) but if they are already succeeding in a PAN of 270 and have a huge over subscription (1004 applicants this year) then the need for the places is surely there without prejudice (as proven for the last 5 years)

As I keep saying, the appeal is a balancing act - weighing up the school’s case against yours - and a lot will depend on how convincing the panel find the evidence offered by the school. And as I also keep saying, adding additional pupils into an existing class set-up is not the same thing as running a bulge class for the last several years.

This isn’t the weakest appeal I’ve seen but nor is it the strongest. Give it your best shot.

@PanelChair thanks I will give it my best- although my feeling is to keep quiet at Stage 1 and just bullet point my arguments at Stage 2 and see where the cards fall. I don't think I am going to be very convincing in at the hearing above and beyond what I've already done. I feel like I need to go in fighting to give her the best chance of winning the appeal and have all these clever questions and points to make, but the fact is we wanted the school because we know our daughter and think its the best fit for her - its as honest as that and backed up with all the things we were looking for in a school that this one offers for her to do the best she can. The whole process is stressful and frustrating - I don't know why we have school with specialisms (in this case its an arts school) that can only be accessed if you live with in 1.5 miles. Anyway I'll give it my best shot and see what happens and hopefully never have to go through this again!

I've seen Havering v Kingsley advanced to support a school essentially saying the fact they've coped with additional pupils in the past doesn't mean there is no prejudice from admitting additional pupils now. Appeal panels know this, so there is little point advancing it. It doesn't help the school.

For the rest, I agree with @PanelChair .

Same here, and it always baffles me why they cite it as if it helps their case - it doesn't!

Yes, that’s what I was trying to say. From the snippet here, it sounds as if the school is trying to say “look, we can’t admit any more pupils and this case backs us up” but (assuming their very brief summary is fair and accurate) it doesn’t.

DD rides horses. Appealed school offers horse riding assessment at GCSE as part of PE. Do they facilitate this? E.g. students do horse riding as part of their PE? That is very unusual for a state school.

Otherwise, any school can normally assess a child on any sport in terms of PE, you just need to supply appropriate video evidence etc.

If the school offers riding, then that is pretty unusual and would likely be a point very unique to the school.