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Original poster

Westminster School going co-ed

98 replies

jobadoo · 29/03/2023 14:26

Newspapers report today that Westminster School will start admitinggirls in the Under School and Senior School, going fully co-ed by 2030. I don't understand why only boys schools going co-ed and not girls schools, setting aside the academic argument that girls bring better results. Or maybe that's the only reason?

OP posts:
BDutton · 31/03/2023 10:24

Will the number of boys accepted be reduced at the expense of girls or will the class size be increased? The class sizes are smaller than other schools, like SPS, as it is.

UnicornRidge · 01/04/2023 06:16

HawaiiWake · 29/03/2023 15:36

I have not seen any recent (last 5 years) academic research showing it is better at single sex school, boys or girls. Heard it a lot verbally but no link to actual research with large sample size and data. They may be going coed due to secondary coed London getting a surge of applications. Harder to get in and some parents wants their sons and daughters to go to the same school and have similar education level or experience.
Most top European schools are coed, as well as HK, Korea etc so those families may not feel single is viable.
Top performing prep and secondary have lots of applications despite London birth rate due to international work posting or preference of English education.

I remember reading reports on how girls do better in single sex schools. First, teachers, including female teachers, tend to give boys more attention. Second, girls in single sex school choose subjects with less cultural appropriation, more girls go into STEM and medicine. In my class at uni, unsurprisingly, most of my female local classmates went to girls' school.

FlawlessSquid · 01/04/2023 06:29

HawaiiWake · 29/03/2023 15:36

I have not seen any recent (last 5 years) academic research showing it is better at single sex school, boys or girls. Heard it a lot verbally but no link to actual research with large sample size and data. They may be going coed due to secondary coed London getting a surge of applications. Harder to get in and some parents wants their sons and daughters to go to the same school and have similar education level or experience.
Most top European schools are coed, as well as HK, Korea etc so those families may not feel single is viable.
Top performing prep and secondary have lots of applications despite London birth rate due to international work posting or preference of English education.

The added benefit would be more on the social aspects for both sex.

SquirmOfEels · 01/04/2023 06:37

Second, girls in single sex school choose subjects with less cultural appropriation, more girls go into STEM and medicine. In my class at uni, unsurprisingly, most of my female local classmates went to girls' school

Ditto more boys in all-boys schools taking A levels in art, English etc

FlawlessSquid · 01/04/2023 06:42

LarkDescending · 29/03/2023 19:56

Westminster’s decision is linked to the results of a review by Fiona Scolding KC, which the school commissioned following Everyone’s Invited.

I went there myself as a sixth-former, and although girls thrived there academically, there were issues with feeling like we were a bolt-on to the school (brought in to burnish the results) rather than really belonging. By getting girls in sooner they will solve that problem and double their pool of applicants, so all good from the school’s point of view. There is an asymmetry about this trend though, as others have said: far more boys’ than girls’ schools go co-ed, and every time they do it shrinks the number of boys’ places further.

But co-Ed schools are on the everyone invited list too. Westminster has prob been particularly under pressure because its name.

Pupils joining in at 6th form would be feeling a bit of outsider regardless of sex though, it’s just normal and to be expected when others have joined in earlier and formed strong friendships.

FlawlessSquid · 01/04/2023 06:49

Legoninjago1 · 31/03/2023 08:25

Don't know about Westminster specifically, but I think it's a shame that the pool of schools for boys is shrinking. There are so many fabulous choices for girls but at this rate there'll be hardly anything left for boys seeking single sex education, for whatever reason.

That’s true & boys are already more disadvantaged in the current education system. But co-ed does help with social skills, hope Westminster will adjust well that will benefit for both sex.

illiterato · 01/04/2023 07:03

Most top European schools are coed, as well as HK, Korea etc so those families may not feel single is viable.

Not true of HK. The best performing local curriculum schools tend to be single sex- Diocesan boys/ girls, St Paul’s etc. The international schools are all co-Ed but they’re not particularly high performing.

illiterato · 01/04/2023 07:17

Anecdotally I feel there’s also an imbalance between demand for boys and girls single sex. In my social group there are a lot of girls at single sex schools with brothers at co-Ed. I can’t think of anyone where it’s the other way round.

HawaiiWake · 01/04/2023 10:00

Yes, from the 80s, 90s cohort there is a lot of the verbal talk about single sex schools being great for girls but no research from last 5 years. Actual research with data published of a sizeable sample. Just my inner data nerd wanting to read this.
Unfortunately, lots of only girls schools and only boys schools on Everyone Invited as well due to horrible events happening outside schools or within their year group. In fact the list of schools are quite shocking in breath, types etc.

motherstongue · 01/04/2023 10:19

@illiterato my DS attended a Boys School whilst my DD attended a Co-Ed for senior school. She did, however, ask to change to a girls school for 6th form as she disliked quite a few aspects of being Co-Ed. She absolutely loved being all girls for her last 2 years of school as, in her words, she was able to concentrate on her subjects without other (male) distractions lol

TJsAunt · 01/04/2023 16:27

Hilariously, after vigorously supporting coed at Alleyns and then being forced into a u turn to vigorously support single sex when he moved to Westminster, Gary Savage will have to change his mind yet again to support the move.....

CJFJ1 · 01/04/2023 19:30

TJsAunt · 01/04/2023 16:27

Hilariously, after vigorously supporting coed at Alleyns and then being forced into a u turn to vigorously support single sex when he moved to Westminster, Gary Savage will have to change his mind yet again to support the move.....

Although you seem to overlook the fact that Westminster has had a co-ed sixth form for the last 50 years.

Original poster
jobadoo · 01/04/2023 19:51

Giles Coren wrote a piece on The Times about the news (he's an old boy) and said no girls were at Westminster in his days. He's in his mid fifties or so. How come girls have been at Westminster sixth form for 50 years?

OP posts:
CJFJ1 · 01/04/2023 20:06

jobadoo · 01/04/2023 19:51

Giles Coren wrote a piece on The Times about the news (he's an old boy) and said no girls were at Westminster in his days. He's in his mid fifties or so. How come girls have been at Westminster sixth form for 50 years?

Actually, Giles Coren wrote this in his piece in The Times on Wednesday: "Sure, they (Westminster School) had girls in the sixth form. But only as a tease, a theoretical reward for the horror of puberty, a species to be monstrously embarrassed in front of...".

And this piece appeared in The Telegraph last week from a former female sixth former from the 1990s:

I was one of the only girls at Westminster school – and had the time of my life

I was one of 60 sixth-form girls at Westminster in 1996. Now, 27 years on, they’re rolling out the co-ed plan to all year groups

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education-and-careers/2023/03/29/adored-one-girls-westminster-going-co-ed-will-mean-even-harder

LarkDescending · 01/04/2023 20:10

Giles was roughly a contemporary of mine. I think he just means he never got near any of the girls. Louis Theroux on the other hand (a year younger than Giles) married his Westminster sweetheart.

CJFJ1 · 01/04/2023 20:14

jobadoo · 01/04/2023 19:51

Giles Coren wrote a piece on The Times about the news (he's an old boy) and said no girls were at Westminster in his days. He's in his mid fifties or so. How come girls have been at Westminster sixth form for 50 years?

Also, see this 1979 BBC documentary about Westminster School - go to 5:06 and you'll see the teenage Daisy Goodwin - now a writer and screenwriter - as a Sixth Former at the school:

WESTMINSTER SCHOOL Documentary 1979: "Public School" (full)

produced by Edward Mirzoeff, and directed by Jonathan Gilli

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_4QRT8WHl0

Littlecamellia · 01/04/2023 20:16

Newpuppymummy · 29/03/2023 15:12

Part of me wonders if this is to get around the ever growing ‘trans’ issue. If they admit girls they can admit the boys who are identifying as girls and girls identifying as boys. This is a huge issue at the moment.

In theory, they could. But in practice, I think they will be desperate to avoid that can of worms and will find a reason to reject those applicants.
I don't know what they will do (or possibly are doing) about the current boys identifying as girls. It will all become a massive issue, unless it fades away, which isn't happening right now.

CJFJ1 · 01/04/2023 20:17

CJFJ1 · 01/04/2023 20:14

Also, see this 1979 BBC documentary about Westminster School - go to 5:06 and you'll see the teenage Daisy Goodwin - now a writer and screenwriter - as a Sixth Former at the school:

Show quote history

... or rather, 5:26.

TJsAunt · 01/04/2023 23:33

@CJFJ1 you seem v pro all things Westminster?

Gary Savage has been strongly pro co education and then strongly pro single sex education- even allowing fir the coed sixth form at Westminster.

was just commenting that am looking forward to another u turn as he explains why coeducation (all the way through) was right after all…

CJFJ1 · 02/04/2023 00:02

TJsAunt · 01/04/2023 23:33

@CJFJ1 you seem v pro all things Westminster?

Gary Savage has been strongly pro co education and then strongly pro single sex education- even allowing fir the coed sixth form at Westminster.

was just commenting that am looking forward to another u turn as he explains why coeducation (all the way through) was right after all…

Not really, I don't have any agenda re. Westminster or anything the current Head has said or not in the past. All of my posts above merely state facts - namely, that co-education isn't entirely new to Westminster, even if we are only talkking about the Sixth Form for the last 50 years.

Gizzabelle · 03/04/2023 16:43

LarkDescending · 01/04/2023 20:10

Giles was roughly a contemporary of mine. I think he just means he never got near any of the girls. Louis Theroux on the other hand (a year younger than Giles) married his Westminster sweetheart.

I was at WW with these people, Giles had plenty of snogs with girls in his year and went out seriously with a couple from the year below, it's not quite the hard-luck story he'd have you believe (I never saw it but a friend of mine had the massive hots for him). Esther in the article pictured married Giles eventually. Louis was in the same year as Giles (though aged a year younger because he was accelerated and Giles wasn't), did marry his g/f - though they got together at Oxford not at school, then divorced.

Didn't know anything about a 50 yr reunion but then WW is always trying to get me to donate - I cannot think of a less deserving cause - so maybe I was nfi. When it goes coed it will be the hottest ticket ever for many people. Very glad my dc showed no interest in going there, preferred to stay more local.

Intergalacticcatharsis · 04/04/2023 15:14

I think it is a great thing for girls. Much better to join at 13 and stay until Sixth Form, then just joining in the Sixth form which goes by so quickly with uni applications, mocks etc and study leave. It is sort of sexist that girls were somewhat excluded from the oldest and most historic, well known schools in England. I know Westminster had a mixed Sixth Form, but it is better to join earlier.

The Under School is tiny so I wonder whether they will build/acquire another more modern site to accommodate girls.

As for the all boys schools going co-ed, I would be interested to hear how many private school places there now are for girls vs boys and whether that has substantially changed. Historically, parents were minded to invest in their sons’ education over and above that of girls, may that have changed? Have tables turned and are schools just responding to that?

SwiftFrog · 04/04/2023 15:53

Interesting move but good for co-ed school choice which is lacking in London.

I will be interested how a co-ed under school impacts schools like Bute, Latymer and City's 7+ girls intakes, and in particular the non-all through Bute's subsequent results. I imagine Westminster will now cream off the most academic girls at 7+. I also wonder if they will also have an 11+ entry option to help girls finishing prep school at that point.

Sairk · 04/04/2023 16:09

We need more single sex education for girls but for boys I'm not convinced. Walk into an engineering or maths department in any U.K. uni and you will be met by a wall of men.

rattlinbog · 04/04/2023 16:10

SwiftFrog · 04/04/2023 15:53

Interesting move but good for co-ed school choice which is lacking in London.

I will be interested how a co-ed under school impacts schools like Bute, Latymer and City's 7+ girls intakes, and in particular the non-all through Bute's subsequent results. I imagine Westminster will now cream off the most academic girls at 7+. I also wonder if they will also have an 11+ entry option to help girls finishing prep school at that point.

Yes or anyone at state primary. They do have a small 11+ entry atm