Sending one child to state if they didn't get into private

[TownCrier]

Inspired by the AIBU thread about sibling resentment and unfairness.

DD is in Y6 at state primary, and didn't get into any of the independent schools she applied to. We are in London where all indies are selective and need you to take an exam. They were all "backup" type schools, and she's reasonably able, so we expected her to get offers.

So, it turns out she gets anxious during exams and has difficulty concentrating. Feedback is that her maths is letting her down. (She isn't bad at maths, but she is prone to rushing and carelessness.)

She has a place at a local state (girls) school. The school is OK. She'd be fine with extra tutoring and may even do very well.

But. We do NOT want younger DS (Y3) to go to the catchment boys state comp. He is clever and weedy, and the school is rough and a bit stabby. He should have no problem with 11+ exams, but we are spooked, and now want to get him into a prep or a through-train independent, just in case.

We've exhausted independent school options for DD. She doesn't want to board, and we can't leave London. We can afford the fees. WWYD?

@TownCrier Difficult to provide specific names of schools without knowing the area you are in (you mention more SE than SW London but that covers quite an area!). I think that you have 3 options for your DD

• non-selective secondary schools (there are some) or less selective the ones you applied for (I know you say you applied for back ups but even within back ups there is a range). Eg, The Hall in SW London
• prep schools going to 13 and then apply for 13+, eg, Bromwood Hall in Clapham
• boarding after y9 (if your DD is amenable to it)

or, you could move to avoid your DS going to school you mention and are concerned about.

I've worked in schools across south London that regularly have knife arches and students are found carrying.
One lad even sharpened his pencil at the bin in front of my eyes with a blade.

I can't get past "a bit stabby." If there is routine knife crime then why is the OP even considering the school? If it's some sort of code, then perhaps she can enlighten us?

@anxiouslemons but carrying a weapon isn't the same as stabbing people is it?

@CurlewKate I assume it's code for something because as you say it's not usual to get stabbed at school.

You're most at risk after school getting home usually

This is a bit outing, but…

my younger sister when to a private school, she was on a part scholarship because she has a specific talent. She did very well, worked hard, enjoyed her self, was given many opportunities and is happy and successful. She is well spoken, with lovely manners, well educated, has married ‘up’ to a lovely man, has a fantastic career, lovely house in a naice area, well travelled etc.

I went to the local state comp because I am distinctly average. And I would say that our education experiences have shaped every part of our lives. I’ll admit it, I am really jealous of the opportunity my sister had. I was in a rough comp with kids I had no idea how to relate to. Never found my tribe, until I ended up messing About and being naughty to fit in and avoid being bullied for being square. I also didn’t try too hard because a) the teachers didn’t really push us at all and b) I wanted to give off a ‘I don’t care attitude’ when people asked why I wasn’t given the same opportunity as my sister. I practiced speaking with slang and bad grammar in private so I could fit in. The level of education was very poor. And yes I’m a bit bitter.

Im happy enough with, and by no means a failure. I worked very hard as a young adult to try and better myself. But definitely distinctly average and a bit tough and ready like my husband, which was obviously my destiny. And I certainly feel like the ‘poor relation’ around my sister and her friends (which is my issue they are lovely and welcoming, but it’s hard to relate. They spent school holidays in Monico or each others holiday homes, while I was in the local pub or in a rave in a warehouse… or at the most invited to butlins with a mates family.

I’ll know you’ll all say my parents could have taught me social side of the things at home. But they were battling the immense pressure from a state school social scene. It was the nineties and the absolute worst thing you could be in my state school was either clever/hard working or rich or posh.

My sister and I have very similar personality traits, but our delivery of them is shows by our peers and experiences from school.

The main issue with a state school is you are fighting against the peer pressure that it’s uncool to work or achieve. In a private school it’s cool to do well. And that’s what is worth the money.

"a bit stabby". Right. I have heard fellow middle class london parents use that expression about some state schools, including the one my ds goes to. No one has ever been stabbed at my son's school. However there is a grest deal of prejudice and rumour surrounding sone schools and the demographic of the kids who go there, my son included.

What @MerryMarigold said. 100%

It is really obvious to me which school OP is referring to, and yes it does have that reputation. It’s the catchment area not the school. I wouldn’t send DS there either, because I wouldn’t want him to get jumped on his way home for pissing off the wrong person earlier in the day.

I don’t think OP is worried he will literally be stabbed to death in a maths class, more that he will come into contact with people who will willingly stab you at a later date if you disrespect them, and she’d rather he didn’t spend six years of his life trying not to upset the wrong person.

I’m sure if you live in East Dulwich or Herne Hill you can shut your eyes to a lot of this, but if you are in Brixton or Peckham you really can’t. We had a letter home from the (outstanding, oversubscribed) school about children in Year 3 (Ie 7-8 year olds) carrying drugs for older gang members, and what the school were doing to combat it.

Perhaps your dd can try for an occasional space? What did you do to help her prepare? Just because you send a dc to a private school, does not guarantee a place a secondary either. I know a few that did not get offers or WLs from private. It is true though from state school you need to prep. Did you get a tutor and do some additional prep? Did you ask for feedback from the schools that she did not get into? You mention it might have been math. Do you know her scores?

My dc are in state school. My dd just did the 11+ and will be going to Godolphin and Latymer. She started her prep end of year 5 with a tutor once a week - online group zoom session and she did atom learning. I think the atom helped a lot, as she liked to see her scores on the mocks and see improvement in her scores. My ds is in year 4 and we decided that we will begin his prep a little earlier. I would have started at the start of year 5 with my dd, but we did not decide to do private until last. I would ask your dd if she wants to try later for an occasional spot or if she might be happy to continue in state school. If she is motivated, then she will need to continue prepping, as they will test her just the same for the occasional spots...at least that is what I was told by a friend who has a dd that just tried for an occasional spot and two of the private schools my dd took exams at. But def check with the schools. Perhaps if you apply again you could explain she was having a bad day or was anxious or whatever. But she will def need to prep. But also, have a think if she did do regular prep, maybe the schools you applied to are too academic for her. Many have said Emanuel or Putney are backup schools (but then loads do not get offers there either). So really, you can never know.

It’s never fair to send one private and one state. There will be lifelong repercussions for the state schooled kid, and will affect the sibling relationship going forwards.

Any one suggesting that Emanuel or Putney High are back up schools has a rather strange interpretation of "back up". Which proves the point that it may be worth scrutinising if the "back ups" were really back ups.

Right, it's a boarding school - but it's probably the most charming boarding school in the country, if not the world. It's called Hanford and it's in Dorset (they have a London coach for exeat weekends and half term etc,) it's an all girls prep and they'll prepare her for 13+. It's non uniform, there's tree climbing and swimming and ponies and Guinea pigs and chickens, and lots of art, and it's tiny, and surprisingly academically successful (not that the girls are aware of that, it's super low pressure.) I went there, and DD is starting next term. Because she wants to (she didn't want to go to boarding school, but she wants to go to this one.)

I agree with @QuiteAJourney . Emanuel and Putney are definitely not back up schools. Not actually sure such a thing exists really.

@Saschka I was brought up near Brixton when it was actually proper rough. So it's the people in the catchment that are the problem?

We had a letter home from the (outstanding, oversubscribed) school about children in Year 3 (Ie 7-8 year olds) carrying drugs for older gang members, and what the school were doing to combat it.

How many parents who send their dd to the oversubscribed school partake in recreational drug use?

Not necessarily true - every family and every circumstance is different. I went to our local state secondary and did very well academically. My sister (two years younger) was struggling academically, and when our family's financial situation changed (ie when my mother remarried a successful man) they decided to send my sister to boarding school as they felt it would help her. And they were right, moving my sister to a different, much more supportive environment totally turned things around for her, and has probably changed the trajectory of her life for the better.

At the time I was jealous (I mean, I was 15!) because I was a great student and I would have loved to have the opportunity to go to such a well resourced school. But I didn't blame my sister, it wasn't her fault. And I recognised that she needed the help more than I did. I was glad she got that help and that she was a more happy and successful person because of it.

Lifelong resentment is what it may lead to. Poor relationships between siblings. Both state or both private. There will be places in a private school for year 7 it may be further or even less high achieving than the back up schools but there are private schools with places or a prep school that goes to year 9.

@Puffykins I was also going to suggest Hanford. I think you can do a try out day/night there. I think most girls adore their time there.

Putney has never been a back up schools so I'm not sure why anyone would say that!

I would also look at places in preps that go up to 13.

Why don't you look at a prep for years 7+8 which Will give you two more years to explore weekly boarding.
There are non-selective independent schools in London - many traditional prep schools have opened senior schools which are less competitive.
Emanuel and PHS are definitely not easy to access.

@3WildOnes you can do a try out day/ night. DD just did hers and didn't understand why I had to take her home again afterwards. "I like it. So I can just start now, no?" It really is a school like no other.

The state option you have for her sounds perfectly adequate. Top it up with any extracurricular opportunities or one-to-one Maths upper you think she needs and make sure she knows that if she wants to board later (Y9 or Y12) then you are happy to explore those options with her. That way she will feel empowered in her choices and won't resent her brother for going to a fee-paying school in Y7.

Perhaps move to catchment of the Dulwich charter schools, they seem to be highly regarded mixed sex state options.

I’ve lived on and around Coldharbour Lane since the 1990s, and yes, some people who live around here are involved in gangs. Ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

Far more risk of getting caught up in it here than kids in eg Bromley or Addington.

Do you really think it’s acceptable for pupils to bring weapons to school?