School appeals/waiting list

[CJOJ]

Hi all new to the page. My dc did not get into 1st or second choice school. Has been offered the 3rd the issue we have is that this school is no longer an option.

After putting it down as 3rd choice my dc was attacked by several pupils from this school and is now to scared to leave the house on his own. If he goes to this school the only way to get there is to get on the bus provide by the school with the same pupils. He is the only child form his primary school going to said school so will have no support. As you can imagine as parents wil can not send him with the chance it will put him in direct danger. As it stands come September he will not have a school.

He has lost over a stone in weight since finding out he has to go there he has been crying nearly every night since .We are going out of our minds with worry. Any suggestions would be a big help.

Also we are 3rd on the wating list for 1st choice school. If we were to move house closer to said school would he move up the list ?

Thanks for any help

(Scuse typos! Chubby thumbs today)

In practice, any succesful appeals that push the school over PAN now will be mitigated by not replacing future leavers, so the cohort may well return to PAN by September, and certainly by the time they get to their GCSE years. So the real impact of succesful appeals is temporarily (not permanently) oversized classes, and the fact that that they displace applicants who would otherwise get in from the waiting list. Appeals panels are not allowed to acknowledge the latter (a flaw in the appeals code in my view), so everyone disingenously acts as if the cohort increase is permanent.

@krimsontide I agree that is frustrating if appeals panels are not allowed to acknowledge that children leaving at a later date will bring the year back to PAN, pupils moving during years 7-9 happens all the time. In my daughter’s 8-form entry school she has had about 10% leave from her class, extrapolate that across the year group and that’s 24 pupils leaving! She’s had a few new children join so I assume they’re from the waiting list and there has been space for them (as opposed to them appealing and the school having to go over PAN to admit them).
Do I take it there is no point me raising this in my appeal? My main focus of course is the prejudice to my son of not attending this particular school.

Do I take it there is no point me raising this in my appeal? My main focus of course is the prejudice to my son of not attending this particular school.

No - it doesn't always happen, and the panel cannot take into consideration what might happen (or not) in the future. It has to consider the impact as it would be now on a school year full to PAN.

Meant to add that my daughter’s school is very popular and oversubscribed.
Also meant to say I’ve not had the school’s case yet, so not prepared any challenge yet.

Of course, panel members know there is often a lot of churn in schools (especially in areas like mine, which tend to have a mobile population), but they can’t predict how much churn there might be in any given school in any given year. That’s why they can’t bank on future pupils leaving, to offset any increase in numbers via appeals, and have to consider the arguments around prejudice.

You can't predict the future.

What if extras had been added on the assumption it would all sort itself out in Autumn 2019? Hardly anybody was changing schools until this time last year and there were a very small number of late withdrawals for the new year 7s, along with an equally tiny number of address changes/moving out of area both throughout this last year and so far during this round.

You can have a rough idea of what to expect, but that's why there are waiting lists to take account of those anticipated changes. Pre-empting that is too risky.

Yes..Though I think if more parents understood that other parents' successful appeals reduce their own child's chances of a waiting list place, rather than creating mythical "extra" places, then they would be unhappy about it, and it might make the numbers of appeals rise dramatically.

... or, on the bright side, it might prick a few consciences, reducing the number of appeals down to only those parents who genuninely believe their child's need for a place is significantly greater than that of all the children above them on the waiting list.

If this was the case I would understand but the schools full argument is that "the class rooms,learning areas and laptops are only set up for 26 children and cannot hold any more. So if that is true and they make an exception for other year groups then why not year 7 ?

Presumably they mean the year 7 learning areas. Perhaps the classrooms for other year groups have smaller desks, arranged differently, and to replicate that for year 7 would require different desks and equipment to be procured. The school's case is that additional students would prejudice efficient use of resources, not simply that there isn't enough physical space.

Don’t forget you’re arguing here on the balance of prejudice. You can certainly try to argue they’ve got capacity to accommodate your child (and others) but what a winning case often boils down to is that, even if accommodating an extra pupil causes the school some difficulty, that difficulty is outweighed by the detriment the child would suffer if they could not attend.

Hi I understand what you are saying. We also have a letter form the doctors stating that should DS go to any other school it would have a dangerous impact on his current diagnosed anxiety and mental health. The over PAN is just more for us to add to the appeal.

I would just like to thank you @PanelChair all of your advice in this difficult situation has keep us on track with the appeal. Not sure where we would of been without it.

I'm afraid not we have had the classroom measurements back and all learning areas are the same size. All English,maths,art and so on are equal sizes. We have a daughter in the same school and she has stayed in the same room each year so the year 7s go into the classes that have been left by year 11s.

Hi just an update.

Even with a letter from the Doctor naming appeal school DS was not offered a place after the appeal. Have no idea what to do next

Thanks for all the help again

Ah that's a shame. I guess that all I would do in this situation is stay on the waiting lists, assure DC that he won't be going to school 3 (if his anxiety cannot be overcome) and wait it out.

Do his medical needs bump him up the waiting list at all?

If nothing comes up by the time school starts keep him at home (but on the roll) until the education authority get involved.

I’m so sorry, op. Are you still 3rd on the waiting list? Are you also on the waiting list for your second choice school?

Hi Thanks again

I'm not sure if his medical condition will bump him up. Might be worth an ask.
He is on the waiting list for 2nd choice but is around 57th on the list.

We have been waiting for the closing date for the waiting lift befor we ask again.

We have also inquired about schools with open places.

I just carnt believe that 3 people can over ride a doctors recommendation. Blows the mind.

What would happen if we just didn't send him to the given school.

What would happen if we just didn't send him to the given school.

If he goes on roll there and you don't send him, it will go through a graduated response of support to help him access school and attend and then ultimately end with enforcement where you are fined etc.

He can still stay on the waiting lists for other schools during this and his non attendance at school will kerp him high on the councils radar, but no guarantee.

Alternatively you could decline the place and Electively Home Educate while waiting for a place from the waiting list. This isn't something any school would recommend. You have no knowing if the wait will be weeks, months or years.

Have you appealed second choice?

Any other schools you could consider?

You are in a position of 'beggers can't be choosers' so widen your expectations on which schools would be OK.

I would also see about appealing for the second choice school.

Sorry to hear this OP. I feel for you and your son I really do.

I know the advice is "Accept the place you are given and appeal/get on waiting lists" but perhaps in your case, it would be best to withdraw from the offer and home educate him until you get a place somewhere else. If you can afford it, there are tutors as well as resources/facebook groups dedicated to home education. But there is also the possibility that your son won't get a place from the waiting list at all. Could you find out from the school how far the waiting list has gone down to in the last few years? That'll tell you how much chance he has at getting a place.

Yes, also look into appealing the second choice school. Is private an option at all? Good luck OP.

@CJOJ Are you happy with the way the hearing was conducted? I note your earlier post about the school representative telling parents that no-one wins an appeal. Did anything happen that would make you question the independence of the appeal panel? For example, did the school's representative enter the hearing with you and leave with you?

Hello

I am after a bit of advice please.

I’ve tried to contact my local school admissions but they will not give me any advice until I go into great detail with them and I’m worried it will jeopardise things.

I have a daughter due to start secondary school in September.

She lives 50/50 between myself and my ex-partner, no set days but equal amounts of time between. We also have no court order in place because we are very amicable.

I am in receipt of child benefit because this pays for gymnastics. However, her medical bits are registered at her fathers.

We are in 2 different school catchments, although very close because we both support each other with her care.

Can you advise me whom I would need to apply via for the school place please.

We both agree with the school closer to him being the one we felt better suited to.

We are just unsure what the process is because we mutually share child arrangements equally and me receiving child support (to pay for clubs because I live next to them) but him having medical (due to the fact he lives next to her Drs and it’s always been that way).

We were unsure what the process is and didn’t want to apply wrongly.

Her current school I deal with mostly because I live closer and have another child there but we are both named and have dealings.

Her current school have agreed the school closer to her fathers is better suited and said we can apply for the one closer to her father because of our shared arrangements but to check.

Also who would need to apply, the application shows in my family because I obviously applied last time.

Can I still apply and just put my ex partner’s details in my Daughter’s address bit?
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I appreciate your help.

Many Thanks

Tanya

@TanYA1111 You need to start a new thread for this.

Thanks I am new to this