School appeals/waiting list

[CJOJ]

Hi all new to the page. My dc did not get into 1st or second choice school. Has been offered the 3rd the issue we have is that this school is no longer an option.

After putting it down as 3rd choice my dc was attacked by several pupils from this school and is now to scared to leave the house on his own. If he goes to this school the only way to get there is to get on the bus provide by the school with the same pupils. He is the only child form his primary school going to said school so will have no support. As you can imagine as parents wil can not send him with the chance it will put him in direct danger. As it stands come September he will not have a school.

He has lost over a stone in weight since finding out he has to go there he has been crying nearly every night since .We are going out of our minds with worry. Any suggestions would be a big help.

Also we are 3rd on the wating list for 1st choice school. If we were to move house closer to said school would he move up the list ?

Thanks for any help

They shouldn't be telling people this- it's never guaranteed. But if the school is already full/over full and they have strong health and safety arguments as to why admitting another student might be dangerous etc, then it's possible it would be difficult to win an appeal?

Arguments for schools being full go beyond "health and safety" and include resource planning. Trust me, schools want as many students as possible, because it helps their budgets - so if they thought they could routinely admit extra children they would increase their intake via formal means. However, if they have planned space and resources for a maximum of X students, and end up with X+1, all students will be negatively impacted. The case for appeal needs to be very strong in order to override that.

Having seen many appeal cases put forward by admission authorities and been involved directly and indirectly in a large number of appeals, I disagree. Over 20% of appeals for secondary schools are successful. I don't think that 20% of parents have very strong cases. Indeed, I've been involved in appeals which have been successful where the parents definitely did not have very strong cases, but their case was strong enough to overcome the school's case.

As always, prh47bridge hits the nail on the head. The deciding factor isn’t whether the parent’s case is very strong, it’s whether it’s stronger than the school’s case for not admitting and so the prejudice to the child if they’re not given a place outweighs the prejudice to the school in having to accommodate an extra pupil.

I work as a school admissions officer in a local authority and I also do the paperwork and present appeals for the schools that the LA is admission authority for.

I would say that one or two appeals are successful each application round for our schools- almost exclusively Y7 rather than Reception as the bar is so much higher to breach infant class size legislation.

I always advise people to appeal - we lay out what they need to do and we are realistic in warning people that all schools can support mild ASD, that travel/work/childcare arrangements will not be a good reason etc but that is not to say that the appeal decision is predetermined just that what seems like a big issue to your family is unlikely to be something that the panel haven't heard 100 times before and that generally boils down to parental preference rather than a need for an extra place in the school.

One year when I was shadowing the previous job holder, the panel decided that the school's statement was not strong enough and there was nothing to suggest that they couldn't handle an extra child in each Y7 class - they allowed all the appeals even the one where the Mum said that she really wanted X Catholic School down the road but thought she may as well appeal for this one too and the ones where the appellant didn't show up.

A year or so ago similar happened with a local Academy who arrange their own appeals - the Head presented and was asked if there were any spaces in Y7 and she said 'yes' - what she meant was 'yes, but there is a waiting list and the places will be offered to the children at the top of the list' But because she didn't say that the panel allowed all the appeals - regardless of their reasons for the appeal.

These things happen - in our case - where a mistake has been found, we will make sure the place is offered and it never gets to appeal (mistakes are very rare and it is normally something like a school not recognising a sibling so priority is not applied).

With the ones like OPs in my experience panel members are kind - they become panel members because they have an interest and because they care - they want the system to be fair and for people to have a chance.

The emotional ones like bullying etc are the one or two that can be successful - but it very much depends on how the appellant comes across, but they want to help in a way the admission arrangements can't - to use their power to make the right decision for a family who won't get the help anywhere else

Show that DC has lost weight, is anxious, sacred upset etc - gather as many statements from professionals as you can to support this.

Don't slag off the school you have been offered - talk to the school you have been offered to see what they will do about the issues so you can explain to the panel you have spoken to them to see if it can work and to reassure DC but that you can't see that it will work.

This may be a long shot and may not be possible. I'm sure some of the experienced people in admission could advise.

But if you lose your appeal then accept the place in 3rd school.

Obviously ds won't attend because he can't.

Because he can't attend due to his mental health and he's registered there you are still under the responsibility of the LA and they have to put things in place.

That may be tutors or you could try a managed move request.

My ds attended a school and was also assaulted. He couldn't attend due to anxiety and so he was moved via managed move.

I think this is a very risky strategy if the DS never goes into the school. If a student doesn't turn up for a school place, then it is easier for the school to abdicate responsibility for them than if a child was previously attending and stops.

The LA does have a duty to provide education, but they won't necessarily go down the route of a managed move. They may work towards "reintegration" at the allocated school first. The managed move may also be to a school OP wouldn't have chosen - the other school has to be willing to accept the child and have space.

It also means OP's son will miss out on transition and the start of the new school which is not easy for a child who's already anxious.

If they do put tutors or AP in place, it will not match the breadth of education that the child would get in school. And some LAs will really drag their feet about providing this (because it is expensive) and insist on medical evidence etc.

It is indeed a very risky strategy which could end with OP being prosecuted and potentially facing a prison sentence.

Once again thank you all for the advice.

I was wondering how I would go about finding if there are schools with place available in my area??

Sorry for all the questions but looking at every possible solution.
Thanks

Contact admissions at your local council.

Otherwise, just wait it out. 3rd place is likely to move between now and Sept. Reassure your son that whatever happens he won't be going to the school in question and keep it light.

So iv have just been going over the paperwork sent by the 1st choice school. It says that they can not expect another child because of only having room for 26 children in each class, the trolley that hold the laptops only hold 26 each. Then the go on in the same document to say that the numbers may vary for classes of children doing their options or 6 form classes. If they can do this without it having a negative effect on the children. Is it not contradicting that it's not possible to have an extra child in the class just because it year 7? Do you think this is something that I should question?

Ask them how big the classrooms are. That will tell us whether their argument that they don't have room holds water.

Saying numbers may vary doesn't necessarily mean they go above 26 but, if they do, that is worth bringing up.

Scattergun it.

Contact the LA and ask to be put onto the Waiting List for every school, then go onto the website for each one and if they ask for a supplementary form, complete it.

The reason is that they may very well have a waiting list, but you will move up and down between now and September (and the waiting lists have to be kept open until the end of the Autumn Term by Law and many will keep them open longer).

If I ask the question would they have to provide me with every class size? I know its a lot to ask but worth a shot.

Yes - it's often part of the school's standard case, if they have many small rooms. They must supply you will all reasonable information to help you make your case.

Would it help to get my DS to write a statement of how not getting into 1st choice school has effected him??

Absolutely not. It may look like emotional blackmail.

The panel will no doubt be sorry to hear that your son is upset, but (harsh as this may sound) the appeal turns on what your son needs, and the balance of prejudice, not on what he feels about the allocated school or not getting into the preferred school. The panel is likely to take the view that you should be supporting your son in accepting that he may not get a place at the preferred school, not ramping up his disappointment by getting him to write a statement.

Thanks just looking at getting as much together as possible. He was in a band with pupils form 1st choice school. The plan was for him to join them again in year 7 ( school offers amazing music/recording rooms that pupils can use in their spare time or after school) would he benefit for a statment from the others.

Are you asking whether you should get a statement from his friends? If so, the answer is again an emphatic no, for the same reasons.

Didn't spot this before - those will be smaller classes, not larger ones - such as 15 for music tech, 24 for history, 8 for Government & Politics A Level, that kind of thing.

And having done it as a job for years, I can pretty much promise you that there is zero chance of a bunch of year 7s to form a band and fuck about in a recording studio after school - not when there are Year 10s, 11s, 12s and 13s to get through their compositions and performance components; a lunchtime club or one afternoon after school if there is space after accommodating choir, man choir, gospel choir, junior brass earplugs essential, senior brass, percussion, keyboard, guitar/ukulele, theory club, revision, completing things that should have been done in GCSE lessons and strings is more likely for y7s. And that was with an incredibly well staffed department with three teachers, two techs, peris and admin in a huge purpose built department covering two floors plus a lot of Labour Government funding.

As PanelChair says, please don't get letters from your son or his friends. They aren't relevant to the appeal, and can backfire as they can be construed as you trying to make the panel feel bad (and they are extraneous clutter than can detract from better grounds).

So if the evidence isn't from a professional eg: teacher, doctor, sports coach, tutor it will be a waste of time adding it to the appeal?

We have had a date set for appeal it will be 5th of next month.

All supporting paperwork along with any other questions needs to be in by next Tuesday.

So time to start putting everything together.

If it is talking about your child's condition in general terms rather than specifically talking about your child it is likely to be a waste of time. And if you have evidence from a professional about your child, that will be given more weight than anything from a non-professional.

Hi all I have asked the school if options and 6th form classes have more than the 26 pupils in a class. They have told us that some classes do have more than 26 in them. So is this something I could bring up to the panel?

Having 26 in a class on average is exactly what enables them to flex up or down for optiins groups! If the school has (for example) 6 core tutor groups of 26, so 156 students in total, then they will need 6 teaching groups in any given timetable period. That might be 4 groups of 30 doing very popular options, and 2 groups of 18 doing less popular options. If the average class size was 30 they would have to make sure that all 6 options groups were equally full, which is impossible unless you force students to take options they don't want. The schoom are unlikely to be able to afford the alternative of having more than 7+ options groups in a timetabled period.