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Original poster

NEA - ChatGTP

59 replies

Cliff1975 · 21/03/2023 16:54

So, my DS2 who is in year 13 has just completed his History NEA. We have had a letter home from school to say he has been using Chatbot GTP and this will be reported to the exam board. Does anyone have experience?

OP posts:
GreenLeavesRustling · 21/03/2023 16:56

This is very new tech, it is hard to detect. I’m surprised if a school have been able to identify work done by ChatGTP.

Did he use it?

Middletoleft · 21/03/2023 16:59

Not that difficult apparently as the universities are on the ball with software to detect it.

Not schools I realise but presumably the software is easily available.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 21/03/2023 17:00

I don't know what an NEA is but I'm surprised that the school is able to detect the use of ChatGPT. What does your ds say?

Nobody will have any experience specifically relating to ChatGPT, I don't suppose, because this will be the first year that students can access it. However, if they can prove it, I imagine that it would be treated like any other case of intentional plagiarism/cheating.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 21/03/2023 17:00

Middletoleft · 21/03/2023 16:59

Not that difficult apparently as the universities are on the ball with software to detect it.

Not schools I realise but presumably the software is easily available.

Ah, OK. The last I heard, it couldn't be picked up by Turnitin etc, but maybe that's all changed now.

GreenLeavesRustling · 21/03/2023 17:06

There are programmes that can apparently detect it but I would be very surprised if a school was routinely using them.
more likely DS has told someone and word has got back to teachers. Perhaps he is being made an example of. He certainly won’t be the only one. It would also be extremely difficult to prove, I suspect.

Original poster
Cliff1975 · 22/03/2023 06:22

So a teacher saw that he had it open on a school laptop. The school IT department has looked at the laptops being used by the history and geography A level groups and looked at their search history, they have sent us a print out of times he has used it over a three day period. He admits using it for research but says he has used it in the same way as any other website for research. Apparently others are being reported too. I asked school what about if students have used it at home, they said well we wouldn't know then - which is exactly my point. If the exam board do say he has plaigerised what action are they likely to take? Will it just cancel his NEA, his whole History A Level or all of his A Levels? He has been struggling in sixth form and to be honest I am worried that they are making an example of him so that the exam board think they are rigorous whilst they will let it go for other higher performing students. Does anyone know how long the exam board will take to make a decision. This hanging over us is awful for him and us as parents.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cliff1975 · 22/03/2023 06:24

My other question is if the school didn't want them to access it why haven't they blocked it on school IT?

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 22/03/2023 06:31

Using it to "research" is a bit difficult to believe, honestly speaking. That isn't really its purpose. Did he reference it as a source in his work? I'm guessing not.

I don't know what the exam board will do. I'm pretty sure it won't affect his other A-levels.

I get that he has been struggling but if he has cheated and got caught, then I'm afraid he needs to face the consequences.

user18 · 22/03/2023 06:39

I’m struggling to see how he would have produced a decent thought piece of coursework using it anyway. It’s assessed using very strict criteria and the marks are awarded for particular things. It’s not the case that a good coherent essay showing lots of knowledge scores the top marks.

The problem with NEAs is they are marked in school and then moderated by the exsm boards. If the essays moderated are found to have been marked too generously, ALL of the essays in that school are downgraded. It’s therefore essential that school spot any issues such as cheating. I suspect therefore that your child will be withdrawn from the A Level. The NEA is 20 percent of the grade.

user18 · 22/03/2023 06:45

I suspect coursework will become a thing of the past because of these programmes. It’s such a shame for the kids who struggle with exams.

QuintanaRoo · 22/03/2023 06:45

Our university can’t pick it up via turnitin.

I think they would struggle to prove he used it, aside from for research.

I set it an essay question I’ve recently set my students. First attempt was a decent discussion on the topic but no references. Then I asked it for references and got a decent list of references on the topic. So to be honest I can see the benefit of using as an adjunct to literature searching in a more traditional manner. And if I was a current student I’d certainly be using it for literature searching.

30062015 · 22/03/2023 06:51

DCs school sent email letter last week advising they have software to pick this up and it would be considered as plagiarism if any students were found to be using it for school. They did say 1 student had been found to use it, obviously did not go into detail. We received a second letter this week with more info, but I can't find it now.

DC did go on to say that a friend's older sibling has an offer from Oxford and they used something similar to write their PS.

kegofcoffee · 22/03/2023 06:57

So... if this is the case he should be able to prove he only used it for research.

He needs to log into his CharGPT account and it'll shown chat history, date, time, his input and the AI output.

If the ChatGPT output doesn't match the essay/report then it's not plagiarism.

That said ChatGPT doesn't give references, which are usually required at a level, so if that was his source of all research I suspect he'd be in for a bad grade.

kegofcoffee · 22/03/2023 07:10

I suspect any school that says they have software to detect it are bluffing.

Unless the student is typing in a really basic wide question and taking the first thing that comes out. Rather than asking series of questions to construct a more considered essay.

For example: 'write me an essay about WW2' is a pretty predictable question and will give you something similar to anyone else that asks the same question....

But: 'Write an introduction about the run up to WW2' then 'tell me about British's decision to join WW2' then 'add a section about the impacts WW2 had on farming' etc. is a less predictable series of questions that'll make it harder to prove.

They could argue that the work isn't of your usual standard or tone. And the referencing isn't good enough. But I doubt they could prove it was from GPT.

MrsHamlet · 22/03/2023 07:12

Cliff1975 · 22/03/2023 06:24

My other question is if the school didn't want them to access it why haven't they blocked it on school IT?

This response will get you nowhere, I'm afraid. We don't want students to cheat. They know that if they cheat, they may well be punished with the loss of their grade.
Turnitin now has the facility to check for AI written work, according to the email I received this week.
The best case scenario is that - if he hasn't signed the declaration - they let him redo it from scratch. The worst case is that they report him to the board for plagiarism and he loses all NEA marks with that board.

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 07:15

MrsHamlet · 22/03/2023 07:12

This response will get you nowhere, I'm afraid. We don't want students to cheat. They know that if they cheat, they may well be punished with the loss of their grade.
Turnitin now has the facility to check for AI written work, according to the email I received this week.
The best case scenario is that - if he hasn't signed the declaration - they let him redo it from scratch. The worst case is that they report him to the board for plagiarism and he loses all NEA marks with that board.

Show quote history

But it surely is a valid question? Schools block all sorts of things on their internet. Why wouldn't they block this? Or is it a case of this AI stuff coming in so quickly that IT departments haven't kept up?

BadgerFacedCoo · 22/03/2023 07:20

Cliff1975 · 22/03/2023 06:24

My other question is if the school didn't want them to access it why haven't they blocked it on school IT?

If that's going to be your defence he's fucked.

If used properly it's hard to detect. Using it on school premises is a whole other level of ridiculous.

MrsHamlet · 22/03/2023 07:21

It might be a valid question but NEA doesn't require controlled conditions. We have to be able to trust our A level students.

DoughnutDreams · 22/03/2023 07:31

QuintanaRoo · 22/03/2023 06:45

Our university can’t pick it up via turnitin.

I think they would struggle to prove he used it, aside from for research.

I set it an essay question I’ve recently set my students. First attempt was a decent discussion on the topic but no references. Then I asked it for references and got a decent list of references on the topic. So to be honest I can see the benefit of using as an adjunct to literature searching in a more traditional manner. And if I was a current student I’d certainly be using it for literature searching.

Did you fact checking the essay and references? I asked it questions for test purposes and it was wildly inaccurate!

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 22/03/2023 07:34

ChatGTP often makes up fake citations. I wouldn't be surprised if it made up something else and your DS put it in the report which has raised suspicion. I know people try to say it's amazing and undectable - but honestly it's not when a human looks at the work. Particularly at A- level.

It's not an appropriate source for research without doing further research to back up anything it suggests. If there's no evidence of further research on the laptop this won't help his case.

The college won't discuss the situation of other students with you, so it's irrelevant if someone used it at home. Your DS has used it in college and the college has good reason to believe he has cheated. I would imagine the college has a policy for this on their website, or if not you can ask for it - this will explain what happens next.

If the college believes the whole NEA is not his work then in theory he should get 0 marks. As it's a number of them, I doubt the college would want this to happen and they will avoid it if they can. But the college won't risk submitting work that may have come from another source so I doubt the research argument will hold.

Original poster
Cliff1975 · 22/03/2023 07:49

They have already told us they are reporting him to the exam board. I know he is in the wrong- doesn't make it any easier to deal with. I also know that other students are none of my business. I do feel though they are using him as a scapegoat when actually they are all using it. The school has no policy regarding its use- I have asked.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cliff1975 · 22/03/2023 07:52

To be honest if he gets 0 for his NEA fine, I just don't want it to wipe all his A Levels out. I would also like to know when the exam board will make a decision because my worry is that he will now just give up on everything. He has a place to study music and needs 3 Ds, it is a very practical course so hoping he would enjoy it more. He doesn't even know if he wants to do it- I just want him to be happy and motivated by whatever he does. His brother is at Cambridge- he feels inferior and it is so hard.

OP posts:
OffTheTableMaurice · 22/03/2023 07:59

@Cliff1975 get your son to show you his Chat GPT log, it will show what he searched and what it returned back. Then have his submitted NEA work and compare. As a parent I would want to see it so that I could fight his corner depending on how much he relied on it. Knowledge is power here.

ChateauMargaux · 22/03/2023 08:02

I agree with @OffTheTableMaurice

gencritdd · 22/03/2023 08:10

OffTheTableMaurice · 22/03/2023 07:59

@Cliff1975 get your son to show you his Chat GPT log, it will show what he searched and what it returned back. Then have his submitted NEA work and compare. As a parent I would want to see it so that I could fight his corner depending on how much he relied on it. Knowledge is power here.

This.

I asked out an essay question yesterday with references and the references it kicked out looked good on the face of it, but when I checked they didn't actually exist.