Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Is this really year 8 maths?

111 replies

DrRuthGalloway · 18/03/2023 10:55

My DD is in year 8. She is in a comp, we live in a grammar area but she didn't pass 11+, just for context, maths is a weaker area though she is generally able in my opinion. She was 13 marks off passing 11+.

At the comp (genuine comp, not secondary modern) she is in top set maths. They have a new homework system. She seems to be getting ridiculously difficult tasks - screenshots attached, a couple of a series of this sort of thin from her most recent homework. Is this really expected in year 8? I have no idea how to solve this and even dh, who got A for maths O level back in the day, isn't certain. I thought the new guidelines were to stay within programmes of study for the age group and not zoom upwards, but I am quite shocked if this is ordinary year 8 work.

Is this really year 8 maths?
Is this really year 8 maths?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
SoTedious · 18/03/2023 15:44

OP those are not standard form questions. I would look a bit further back in her book for rules of indices. y2 x y2 etc (that is supposed to be y to the power of 2).

She can use rules of indices to do the multiplication bit and the division bit, or think of it as a fraction and divide top and bottom by the same number until she can't go any further, just like if she had 24/52 or something.

Takeachance18 · 18/03/2023 16:51

Maybe the homework is checking how much they remember from last year? Mine have just been doing similar in year 7 recently. Then lessons can be planned/ delivered to their knowledge.

jobadoo · 18/03/2023 17:38

DrRuthGalloway · 18/03/2023 12:14

Another...I am going to try to work this out...

d+12-8=40
so d=40+8-12=36

Onnabugeisha · 18/03/2023 17:41

Theyre actually really easy to solve even for a Yr 8. No idea why you are whinging. I was doing Boolean Algebra at age 10 and Yr8 is usually age 12.

DrRuthGalloway · 18/03/2023 17:43

Onnabugeisha · 18/03/2023 17:41

Theyre actually really easy to solve even for a Yr 8. No idea why you are whinging. I was doing Boolean Algebra at age 10 and Yr8 is usually age 12.

There's always one on mumsnet, always one....
🙄

OP posts:
jobadoo · 18/03/2023 17:43

Maths is incredibly useful in teaching logical thinking which then translates to critical thinking and learning skills

To tell children who are afraid of maths and numerical reasoning, I'd say that when I recruit people to work for me I want to know if this person can learn new tasks logically and critically (critically meaning being able to tell what's wrong and how to improve it). It takes a lot of time and effort to train a person up for work, with most of work tasks are never taught in school or any educational settings.

The best way to see that logical thinking ability is through the person's understanding of maths. I don't need A Level Maths but GCSE Maths is a pretty good indicator of the person's ability to learn new skills effectively.

Rockingcloggs · 18/03/2023 17:57

Onnabugeisha · 18/03/2023 17:41

Theyre actually really easy to solve even for a Yr 8. No idea why you are whinging. I was doing Boolean Algebra at age 10 and Yr8 is usually age 12.

Whoooop! Go you! 🙄

IDontWantToBeAPie · 18/03/2023 17:58

Miadi · 18/03/2023 11:10

I was in top set maths in Year 8 in 2008. Tbf, I only got a C in maths, no idea why they never moved me down. Hated it. Loathed it. I wouldn't know what to do here. I can't simplify fractions either. I'll be no help to DD when the time comes, she's on her own.

I was in top set in 2011. I got an A. I have no idea what this image means either. Also loathed maths.

SoTedious · 18/03/2023 18:00

@jobadoo Not to be a dick but in case the OP or her DD is looking at your solution and wondering where the 12 came from, it's 2 not 12. So d = 40 + 8 - 2 = 46

SoTedious · 18/03/2023 18:10

I was doing Boolean Algebra at age 10

Where and when was that @Onnabugeisha?

I don't think Boolean is on the maths syllabus these days, must do it in computer science though.

larkstar · 18/03/2023 18:18

Retired maths teacher here: perfectly reasonable. The questions look complicated. The actual mathematical ideas needed to understand them are quite simple - the questions are partly testing that the students really understand the notation as well as very simple mathematical operations like multiply and divide. Remember that some of the teaching could/will take place when the teacher goes over the questions.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 18/03/2023 19:12

Why do children need to know what makes up an atom?

Because you can't understand a lot of chemistry, and quite a bit of physics without this- it's a fundemental building block WRT how the universe works.

And okay, maybe the child will never want to take chemistry or physics further, but it's absolutely awful to suggest they shouldn't get that chance.

How do you know if you'd like to be a chemist before you study chemistry? And how do you study chemistry in a meaningful way without understanding atoms?

I'm sure a lot of your other examples are similar for other subjects.

Stuckrecord · 18/03/2023 19:48

Gosh some really snooty replies on this thread! OP, sparx has videos showing the method for each question but I think it’s based on an algorithm so the questions get harder depending on how easy you find other ones I think. FWIW I work in finance and don’t do any mental arithmetic - I completely rely on excel and a calculator - the key skills I like my team to have are logical thinking, how to find the answer to a question through their own research, and how to do formulas in excel. I got an A in maths A level and I can’t say I can remember any of the syllabus as it bears no relevance to any career success I’ve had since then. I can’t do my Y8 child’s maths homework half the time either!

OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 18/03/2023 20:03

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 18/03/2023 19:12

Why do children need to know what makes up an atom?

Because you can't understand a lot of chemistry, and quite a bit of physics without this- it's a fundemental building block WRT how the universe works.

And okay, maybe the child will never want to take chemistry or physics further, but it's absolutely awful to suggest they shouldn't get that chance.

How do you know if you'd like to be a chemist before you study chemistry? And how do you study chemistry in a meaningful way without understanding atoms?

I'm sure a lot of your other examples are similar for other subjects.

That was the posters point. Most of school isn’t directly relevant to the majority of adult life, but you want to keep as many doors open as possible.

They were highlighting that you could same the same ‘what is the point…’ question for all subjects not just maths.

Mischance · 18/03/2023 22:59

I am all for children learning all of these things - but what we actually have is a concentration on maths (at an inappropriate level for all but those who have a real interest and talent for it), parsing (what other creative subject do we learn by tearing it apart?), testing etc.

Where is education as mind broadening, culturally expanding?

I do think that maths really is a flash point for so many children - some children just do not get it - they are not wired up in that way. Why turn them off learning for the sake of being forced to do something that they will never need?

WatermelonFlamingo · 18/03/2023 23:04

Mischance · 18/03/2023 11:30

This is why children reject maths as a useful subject. What the hell use is this to them? - that is what they ask themselves, and then switch off.

I help my GS (Yr 6) with his maths homework and some of it seems monumentally pointless frankly. Why not give them stuff that makes practical sense to them? - how much wallpaper or tiles to buy for a certain size of room, how to calculate interest on a mortgage etc.

There is a place for pure maths for the academically minded, but thought needs to be given as to what purpose is served by putting children off maths when they simply cannot grasp this.

One of my DDs was like this and failed by one grade 3 times at GCSE - I told the college to just let her be and not make her keep taking it. She now has an excellent degree from a Russell Group university and an MA.

I looked up on an education site how children are now taught to do long division (I was finding it hard to explain to my GS as I had learned it a very different way) and they said that once you are dividing by 2 digits or more, they tell the children to use a calculator - quite right too!

By all means let us have maths purists and stretch and encourage their interest, but loading all this on those for whom maths is a trial is absolutely pointless - it puts them off maths and school and education. All for what?

Well said.

Marchsnowstorms · 18/03/2023 23:23

I have A level maths from a million years ago. I can't do my Yr8s maths as I haven't done it for years. But yes looks typical

Marchsnowstorms · 18/03/2023 23:25

I agree with previous posters. Yr7-9 is full of stuff they may not choose for Yr10-11 But they need to study it first to decide

mrsmacmc · 18/03/2023 23:42

Looks like hieroglyphics to me 😵‍💫

User40764 · 19/03/2023 09:01

Incidentally, surely she should be talking to her teacher if she feels she hasn't covered it and needs a bit of help, rather than you emailing them? She's Year 8!

Bimbleberries · 19/03/2023 09:25

I suspect she has covered it.

She is doing fractional indices on the second page (x to the power of half is the square root of x ,etc). She is not going to be doing that if she hasn't done the straightforward index rules of adding powers when you multiply, and subtracting them if you divide.

She will possibly have done it on a topic on simplifying algebra or something, and learning to write things correctly in algebra - ie., knowing that if you have bxbxb you write b-cubed, and knowing that anything divided by itself is 1, so b/b = 1. If you do b times b, and then divide by b, you're just left with one b again. If you do b times b times b, and then divide by b, you're left with bxb. And so on. Each of the b on the bottom 'undo' one of the times you multiplied by b on the top. This is just an extension of simplifying fractions, and she probably did it ages ago on Sparx as they have lots of questions on that, before you really start to get into the ones with lots of powers.

Once she understands the basics of doing it with just lower powers that you can write out, they give almost exaggerated questions with large powers so that the students realise that the same principles apply. If they understand the basic ones, the bigger numbers are no harder. A number to a power that is then all to a further power is again just an extension of this.

You would definitely do all of that before you start to do things like why x to the power of half means the square root of x. So I would bet that somewhere in her book, there is an explanation of this, long before she got to do the stuff on the page on the right.

Sparx is quite good at bringing back old topics into the homeworks, to make sure that people don't forget that material, and that's one thing I like about it. It's up to the school what topics are put into it, though, so if the school aren't using it well, that's something to bring up with them.

Bimbleberries · 19/03/2023 09:47

And yes, very very often students say they haven't covered something, or that a test had loads of stuff they'd never done, when actually what is happening is that they don't recognise how the topic applies to a particular question. So this sort of thing is really valuable to practise as it shows all the different ways a question might be asked. Sparx is fairly good at that compared to other programmes, I find.

Thefriendlyone · 19/03/2023 09:53

DrRuthGalloway · 18/03/2023 17:43

There's always one on mumsnet, always one....
🙄

That’s not very nice now is it. You and your husband and kid have issues with maths, fair enough, many do, but you don’t need to play mean girl too now do you?

WhereIsMyRefund · 19/03/2023 11:26

Off topic but I am always fascinated that Maths A Level is the most popular A Level (at my kids’ school and I think nationally). Given how difficult so many seem to find it, it still is taken by many many pupils.

WhereIsMyRefund · 19/03/2023 11:34

Thefriendlyone · 19/03/2023 09:53

That’s not very nice now is it. You and your husband and kid have issues with maths, fair enough, many do, but you don’t need to play mean girl too now do you?

That poster was hardly ‘nice’ to the OP, using a patronising tone and accusing her of ‘whinging’.

Swipe left for the next trending thread