Is this really year 8 maths?

[DrRuthGalloway]

My DD is in year 8. She is in a comp, we live in a grammar area but she didn't pass 11+, just for context, maths is a weaker area though she is generally able in my opinion. She was 13 marks off passing 11+.

At the comp (genuine comp, not secondary modern) she is in top set maths. They have a new homework system. She seems to be getting ridiculously difficult tasks - screenshots attached, a couple of a series of this sort of thin from her most recent homework. Is this really expected in year 8? I have no idea how to solve this and even dh, who got A for maths O level back in the day, isn't certain. I thought the new guidelines were to stay within programmes of study for the age group and not zoom upwards, but I am quite shocked if this is ordinary year 8 work.

Because she is conscientious, she wants to do her homework and is getting upset by being given tasks which are too hard and she hasn't been taught.
They aren't hard. It's just that she is panicking or, to quote you, having "a brain problem, not a maths problem".
Tell her to take a deep breath, ask big bro or BBC Bitesize and try again.

My son is year 8 at a comp
This is what he gets. Top set and does Sparx
I find it mind boggling but he seems to be able to do it lol
I have forgotten 99% of everything I learnt in maths but I'm still very good at times tables lol

Yes, I understand that they are learning this stuff - what I am saying is that they need to learn these things, but not all the other stuff, which has no function in their lives.

The reality is though that if you want to know about anything maths related (interest, measurements) you can just go on the internet or use a calculator. Forcing children to cram their heads with this stuff when many do not understand it is pointless - they could be doing something life-enhancing: learning an instrument, creating a garden, learning about ecology, perfecting a sport etc. etc.

I have nothing against learning for learning's sake, but these sort of subjects have no point - fronted adverbials fall into this pointless category too - and we should be rethinking how we educate children. What is the point in cramming their heads with stuff (and in the process putting many children off school) when calculators and the internet have been developed for the purpose of removing these burdens from us. Fine for maths purists and those with a flair for and interest in the subject, but what about the rest of the population? We do not use this stuff in our daily lives and the process of forcing it onto children is that many decide school is not for them and switch off. It is too high a risk for too little reward - it is backward-looking and regressive.

Can your DS look through her maths book with her and see if she’s covered what she needs to do this? Sometimes when things are presented in a different way, the stuff you know goes out the window. Does she know anything about combining indices? If so, the fact they’re shown in fractions shouldn’t be awful. But it’s a surprise when it looks different.

If she’s really stuck, the teacher needs to know via the homework. Homework is a feedback loop to the teacher on what has got understood and what hasn’t. Conscientious is trying hard to do it, not getting the answer if you’re totally stuck.

Of course, it is always possible she’s not covered it at all. It happens sometimes. But it’s more likely it’s a thing they’ve covered, presented in an unfamiliar way.

It looks complicated but like anything. If they've been taught it, she'll be able to do it. 🤷‍♀️

What is the point in cramming their heads with stuff (and in the process putting many children off school) when calculators and the internet have been developed for the purpose of removing these burdens from us.
How do you know that your calculator (we all have fat fingers sometimes) or the internet are correct if you have no knowledge to help you do a reasonableness check?

Can your DS look through her maths book with her and see if she’s covered what she needs to do this? Sometimes when things are presented in a different way, the stuff you know goes out the window.

This is good advice - I used to tutor maths and was always being told "we haven't done it" when the topic was right there in their book. There's often a bit of a disconnect between learning the topic in class and being able to recognise and apply it in a question, it's why practising questions is so important.

@Mischance yes let's completely dumb down the curriculum shall we. Honestly I loathe that utilitarian view of school and learning. It's so narrow, restrictive and doesn't give kids any sort of chance of becoming more, of growing of developing of achieving something they didn't think they could. It's back to the sort of education, or lack of we had two hundred years ago.

If she genuinely hasn't covered it, then email the school and say that she hasn't covered it and as it's a new system that appears to be presenting work not covered in lessons, what is DD expected to do in that instance?

Is she expected to just leave those questions out
or
Watch the videos and attempt to teach herself new content (hopefully not).

The school may not be aware that it will give students questions they can't do, and it needs flagging up so that the school can explain to pupils what they expect in that scenario.

In the meantime, tell her to leave those questions till you hear from the school.

This is why children reject maths as a useful subject. What the hell use is this to them?

In my experience, students care much more about whether lessons are fun or interesting, and whether they pike the teacher, than about whether the subject will be useful. The vast majority of what they learn in most subjects won't be useful to the majority of school kids once they leave school, and they won't remember it after a few years anyway, unless they go on to do further study and/or a job in that field. They are learning how to learn, and becoming rounded individuals.

It's normal in maths to practice the arithmetic before practicing with word questions. Going straight to word questions will confuse kids more - as a person who teaches a primary school child I am surprised that you do not see that.
What I mean is say your y6 son is doing percentages questions. Before he works out how much an item is after the 15% sale discount is applied, he needs to know how to work out 85% of a number (or 15% of a number and how to subtract)

Real world application is subjective. Some people will never have savings so need to work out compound interest or even care why the deductions on their payslip are those numbers.

I am glad that we don't have an education system which writes off kids as "not good at maths" at an early age and have them digging gardens instead. I find it baffling when people are flippant about maths skills in a way that wouldn't occur if a child was illiterate.

I think that what we have now is the modern equivalent of 200 years ago to be honest.

It is not about dumbing down; it is about asking ourselves what education is FOR. How often do we stop and ask this fundamental question?

Early years education has moved on thankfully. It looks at developmental stages, at how children's minds work, at what is relevant and useful to them in the stage of life they are at. It does not pump facts for facts' sake. It is a massive step forward and answers the question what is education for. And then it all goes to pot.

Such importance is placed on core subjects that a true rounded education is lost. Schools struggle to fit in wider education because, fuelled by OfSted, they are encouraged down a narrow route. But what is this FOR?

Let us take music as one example. There is a wealth of evidence that learning music of every kind and in every way (free expression or detailed learning of musical notation) enhances a wide variety of learning with improvements in maths, social skills, motivation etc. But it is an add-on in the curriculum. It is regarded as less important than fronted adverbials and complex equations. But which is the most life-enhancing, which can lead to life-long interests and joys, which helps us to be rounded citizens? Certainly not the maths in the OP.

Education has become about cramming facts and processes that are government-dictated and micro-managed. It has become about testing and data. Let us not forget that government ministers are not educationalists and neither are they willing to listen to educationalists. We are being led by the nose into a system that gives us school dropouts, young people who feel alienated from school and can't wait to leave, adult citizens whose young lives have been dominated by "achieve , achieve", young adults who have a duistorted sense of values that involve climbing the career ladder and being economically productive above all else. There are other important things in life that they lose out on.

What is education FOR?

Looked in books, can confirm no fractions in standard form. They have done basic 4 operations very recently. I can see this homework is taking it a bit further and hasn't been directly taught. Will raise the question with her teacher of what is expected when this happens in homework.

"have them digging gardens instead" - my point precisely Why do we not value digging gardens? Why is this cited as a negative in your post?

Nothing wrong with digging gardens. But we absolutely should NOT be deciding which young teens will be the garden diggers. We give them ALL a chance to learn a wide range of stuff rather than pigeon hole them at age 14.

Why are you arguing what's the point teaching kids about covalent bonds or plant cells?

*aren't

Looks like very typical Year 8 maths to me.

Maths is incredibly useful, but even if you want to argue it isn't, you could argue the same about so many topics covered at secondary school.

Why do children need to be able to analyse the language of a poem?
Why do children need to know what makes up an atom?
Why do children need to know about Henry VIII?
Why do any children without a particular talent in it need to do any dance/drama/music/art?
Why do children need to know about ox bow lakes?
Why bother teaching children any other languages, everyone speaks English!

Why bother with any knowledge at all? Unless it's directly applicable to day to day life (which maths actually is) who gives a shit?

We teach kids all this stuff to keep doors open for them. Sure we could have them digging gardens instead, but what if they then decided they wanted to go on and do engineering? Or study English Lit?

Because many people live in flats and don't see digging gardens as a relevant life skill. I don't think that you can have a school curriculum where you can have all children learn stuff that will be useful in their lives. I don't see learning stuff that won't be used in real life as pointless- primarily because you don't know what is useful until you're much older. Plus people often develop interests after they've gone through school. For example an adult might have found history at school a waste of time but later want to study it further. The idea of a relevant to life curriculum is only possible if you home educate and shun traditional qualifications.

DS -Y9 - says yes, normal for Y8. Steve school, 2nd set maths

That's interesting, I was definitely told he would get topics not yet covered in class. And it seems the op's daughter is too. It would certainly make more sense to follow the scheme of learning.

My son was told to find the teacher at lunchtime if he is stuck on his homework.

It looks like what I was doing in year 8 and I can still do those in my head now

If it is Sparx, there are videos to watch to go with the questions. At any point you can go and watch them and they usually work through example questions. Perhaps find the videos and watch them together?