Is it worth it applying for sixth form if gcse's are not great?

[jennybba]

If you are predicted mainly 4's, 3 5's and a 2 and 3 is it worth it applying for sixth form (sixth form will accept dc as long as average grade is 4 or more)? Is there any hope of possibly getting decent a-levels? What kind of a-levels can we expect with these grades? And if a-levels are not great can dc still go to university?

If he does embark on A levels, it’s worth paying for a tutor if you can swing it perhaps too if he has a PT job to contribute towards the costs. Especially if the goal is University. The current education system isn’t geared towards all learning styles so some young people who are quite intelligent don’t reach their potential or academic aspirations simply due to the education system not suiting their learning style. Vocational studies and BTECs are perfectly fine if that’s what a person wants to do and is suited towards learning, but it would be a shame for him to have to give up on any dreams if he really wants to do a subject/career only offered via A levels.

Good tutors can adjust to different learning styles and even SEN. I got one for my DD with autism and severe dyslexia in Maths for year 11 and she went from a 4 to a 7 on her GCSEs. It’s a bit late for GCSEs, but nothing wrong with considering a tutor for A levels.

English and maths are the most important - will need to pass those to go to a school 6th form. Could retake alongside further qualifications at a 6th firm college.
Will definitely need passes in both for uni.

What does DC hope to study next and at uni?

@jennybba
My DD had similar GCSE grades (covid cohort, so no exams but based on mocks)
She did go 6th form as unsure about next steps- once again many colleges were still doing p/t online lessons which she didn't want to do.

School only accepted her for certain subjects- science was out, due to poor maths grade.
Her predicted A-levels were not great, and wouldn't have got her a place at choosen uni / course. So decided to take a year out after A-levels working in her chosen field. So didn't apply for Uni.
However, she absolutely smashed her A-levels and surprised everyone with above national average grades. Needless to say she received 3 unconditional offers by November 2022 including her first choice uni.

It can be done, but I have to add that she worked very hard and had 100% commitment.

dc wants to study law and politics, unsure about third choice though (business or economics or geography). How hard are these a-levels?

It's unlikely most sixth forms would accept your DC to do A levels with those grades and university might well prove to be an expensive struggle.

What is the background to your DC's predicted grades? Do they represent their genuine abilities, or do you believe your child is capable of working harder and producing higher quality work?

Does your DC have any idea of want they want to do career-wise in the future? What are their interests?

I would suggest looking into a local college (visit if possible) and seeing what other possibilities are out there.

Apply to sixth form but have a back-up plan in place.

Op he should apply and then work his arse off. No reason why he can't boost his GCSEs by at least one grade each.
My nephew was predicted mostly 3's, worked really hard and to everyone's shock, got mostly 5'sand 6's and even one 7. Didn't fail any.

Given the predictions, I think law and politics are unlikely unless they are intelligent but lazy/working incredibly hard and are v committed.

Look at legal apprenticeships too.

If he is thinking of Humanities A levels then it may be he simply doesn't have an interest in any vocational course. If he is not working flat out already he could definitely improve those grades. We would caution against taking 3 new subjects. Does he do geography or business already? Is he aware politics is generally examined by long, e.g. 30 mark, essays? A good number of our students are as pp's have described; not academically stellar, not quite sure what to do and needing a safe space in which to grow up a bit. This is fine. Some drop out when they work out what they do want. And some start to shine when they get to study new subjects.
How difficult a subject is is a subjective question. However Humanities subjects are often accessible for a range of students, providing they have reasonable essay skills.

None of them are particularly "easy". Law and politics are both essay-heavy subjects so decent grades in English are a must - grade 5 at least but preferably higher. Geography and Economics both need reasonable maths skills so again, at least a grade 5 in maths at GCSE. I don't know about business but I'd imagine it's on a par with the others.

Why do they want to do those subjects?

Some absolute rubbish on this thread.
Different colleges/ sixth forms have different entry requirements for different subjects- they are not all the same.
First- Btec / applied / vocational subjects CAN gain entrance to university.
Also, some subjects tend to have lower entry requirements but have some related content- ie she may want to consider Criminology or Sociology .

Why is she against vocational subjects? Students often think A levels = intelligence, btec = thicko which simply isn’t true

@jennybba I agree with some PPs - a key question is, is DC working at full stretch to achieve grade 4s and 5s at GCSE, then A levels would be a stretch. But if they are not really putting in the work then it might be achievable - if they do start to work harder.

What are their predicted 5s in? I presume they do business and geography at GCSE? what is their Eng lit grade (thinking about politics and law)? what about history or any other humanity?

If those are their interests I can see why they might not be keen on Btec. A friend's lad got a 3 in one of his A level subjects but still did well enough in sixth form to go to Lancaster uni.

@Dotcheck actually most PPs who mention Btecs say you can get into uni with them.

@jennybba I have just recalled a friend's lad doing a business Btec which might be of interest to your DC - worth lookign at anyway.

Is their highest predicted grade in English? Are they taking history or geo? If so, what are they predicted in that? Are they lower ability and working their arse off for these predictions? What's the goal after A Levels?
Personally, unless my DD got a 6 in English and maths, I wouldn't suggest she did A Levels. It's just miserable. BTECs are just as hard but a very different style of learning and it suits smart kids that don't do well with linear curriculums. Plenty of sixth forms do those.

A-Levels are still an option and your son may well do better than expected. There are lots of reasons (lockdowns being one) why GCSE results aren’t very high- but doesn’t mean you shouldn’t study academic subjects if the motivation to learn those things is there.

My local, very well respected and 'outstanding' Sixth Form accepts 5 x Grade 4's which must include Maths and English. I guess it depends where you are.

It would be better to look into BTECs. These are done at sixth forms and facilitate university entry.

Whilst he may get onto A level courses, they will be really difficult with a grade 5 or lower. My friend's DD gave up maths A level recently and she had a grade 9 at GCSE (she slogged for it).

Yes you can get into University with Level 3 BTECS - the choice of courses will be narrower but it’s definitely an option. There are lots of websites where you can research University courses and the entry requirements e.g.
www.ucas.com
www.theuniguide.co.uk

If your DC is interested in Business they may want to look at CAMTEC level 3 diploma or certificate in business.
Does the 6th form you are looking at offer Level 3 courses as well as A Levels?

Politics A Level is very essay based so they would need to do well in their English Language GCSE.

For Economics - you need both good Maths and English skills.

Does your DCs school have a careers advisor or head of year at their school that they can talk to about this? They will be able to advise whether they think they are capable of getting higher GCSE grades. Is the school offering any study support sessions?

Agree, talk to Head of Year/Sixth Form/Careers - that is what they are there for.

Also, what do you consider decent A levels? Given the normal progress of a Sixth Form students, yep, unlike to get As and A*s with maximums 4s and 5 at GSCE...but passion, hard work, commitment, reading around a subject etc are so much of what matters for A level.

Different Sixth Forms have different entry requirements - for just general entry - plus course specific. So no-one can give you an exact answer. The school he is interested in can.

Consider a practical course eg plumbing, electrician. These jobs are in high demand and are now very well paid, and it's pretty much a well paid career for life

You do not need to just thinking trade (nothing against trades) with 4s and 5s....!

I'd have a good wide look at L3 BTECs / T-levels. There's all sorts of things around.

As others have said with those grades assuming he is working properly, A levels are likely to be a stretch with expected grades being D/E/U.

With a L3 extended diploma BTEC he could come out with MMM (3Cs equivalent) , and quite possibly higher. It could lead to university to do something related.

Does the 6th form offer BTECH? That's usually a better option if GCSE grades are less than 5. Even with a 5 I wouldn't expect A level grades above a C, but a C is still enough for a decent, albeit not top-tier university. Schools that really care about their statistics for A grades at Alevel won't let you on the course with less than a 6. Universities do accept BTECHs too, and the different assessment methods mean that a pupil who doesn't perform brilliantly at GCSE might really get into their stride and do very well.. the important thing is to identify properly why grades are this low. is he not working very hard, or is teaching poor, or is there an aspect of the work he really struggles with. whatever is holding him back at GCSE level isn't going to disappear, so working out what that is and how to change it (if it can be changed) or adapt plans to accommodate it if it can't be changed, is a vital part of the decision for what to do post-16

What subjects are they predicted 5s in? They are probably looking at a Ds and Es at A-Level, maybe a C in their best subject if they work very, very hard. There is a real risk of failing completely but more likely if they struggle they'll have to start again somewhere after Y12. Generally people with the GCSE profile you're describing get more UCAS points doing Btecs than they would doing A-Levels, which means that they're able to get better university and higher apprenticeship places at 18. It is possible to do a L3 Btec in Applied Law which might be of interest.

It never hurts to apply to several places….because you do t know the actual results until they happen.

However, if the predictions are accurate, BTEC would be more suitable than A Levels. Although there is always someone who can refer to a child with poor GCSEs who performed well at A Level, they are in a tiny tiny minority.

Students who scrapes passes at GCSE are really not geared up to do well or have a good experience of A Levels. Often parents really want them to do A Levels and they only value those as 6th Form qualifications, but pushing a child towards them (even if a school or college will admit them onto A Levels….and many won’t, or not the subjects they actually want) sets them up for a miserable learning experience and low achievement with less options at the end than if they had done a BTEC.

There is nothing wrong with getting 3/4/5 at GCSE. For some that’s a great achievement. But those are the grades of someone who isn’t particularly academic and suited to big terminal exams and a qualification which if for the academic.

I struggle to understand why some people think A Levels should be for all. They have never been for all and are intended as the academic option that suits those who have been higher achievers. Many people are not suited to them and there’s no shame in it, plus there are very good qualifications that are more suitable and open doors to university and work.