Help: West London 7+ or 11+ for a girl? Latymer?

[WLM2023]

Looking for Mumsnet wisdom please!

DD is in the lower school of a highly academic West London prep with highly competitive entry. She’s smart, but probably not super academic and she’s not on a path to get into St Paul’s or G&L (which is what her school mainly aims for). I’m terrified that we might have no options come 11+ as the London system is so, so, so competitive. We live in West London and want her to go to a day school, no boarding under any circumstances.

She and we adore her prep and would love her to stay there forever and ever, but I wonder whether we should try to move her to an all-through school at 7+, as I understand that entry at that point is less competitive. The obvious one would be Latymer which we love the sound of and I suspect her chances will be even better at that point given that she’s a girl and there aren’t as many trying co-ed at 7+. I’m not sure she would get in at 11+ and then we might have few to no options.

Have others been in a similar situation? How hard is that 7+ and when do you realistically need to start preparing, likely with a tutor, bearing in mind that she will have zero help from her current school which is fully geared towards 11+ exits (and starts prepping for that in year 4). Also, at what point would Latymer want references? I suspect our school would not look kindly on girls leaving, and if she then weren’t to get in, we might have a problem.

Lastly, which other schools might we consider? Highgate and Alleyn’s are too far, Thomas’s I don’t think is going to go through until A-levels now and pupils need to change at 16? Is FHSS automatic entry from prep to public?

Thank you so much!!

Local to Latymer - everyone tries and tutors for it now, it’s nothing like the old days where local kids had a fair chance but the thing that would put me off most is the commute. It’s just not safe enough for a child imo and unless you can take her everyday, it would be risky. Edmonton green is not a nice area. For that and the sheer effort it takes, I’d try just for the experience but not be massively disappointed if not in top 300 odd

Have you thought about Putney high? Also, what makes you think your dd is not academic already? She is so young. I assume she is 6? At that age my kids were spending hours in the park, doing minimum for homework (state school that gives homework plus challenge options - we never did the challenges lol). My dd is bright and curious, loves reading. But at that age, I would not be able to guess if she was highly academic or not. She just did the 11+ and will be going to G&L. This was her choice. Her school does absolutely no prep for the 11+ But she decided she wanted to try end of year 5, so we got a tutor for a few months, did some atom learning and she went for it. I know some people that decided to go to a through school so they did not have to deal with the 11+. Heck, we did not want to do it either and thought we would avoid it (long story). But in the end we did it and I am glad we did.

I think OP means Latymer Upper.

OP- there are lots of schools for girls at 11plus so I wouldn't stress too much if you decide to stay at your Prep. She is only young so who knows what sort of school will suit her.

Havjng said that, your Prep sounds like a bit of a nightmare if they are all already focussed on SPGS and G&L!

If you did want to move to an all through there's the GDST schools or Ravenscourt Park Prep would get you a guaranteed place at Kew House. LU is definitely worth a try though as well.

I see you like a Coed for your daughter so for 7+ Latymer do some prep. Otherwise there is 10+ at Emanuel school. Fulhum Prep have a Fulham Senior but that is new so not sure about academic level for your DC. Thomas seems to go up to GCSEs. Knightsbridge school goes to GCSEs. Assuming for A levels there is movement to other coed such as Kings or Westminster or LU. Putney and FHSS are all girls with new heads coming in 2023.

You could try Putney High, Wimbledon High and Latymer. You could also try at 7+, 8+ or 9+ for some schools if you’re keen to move her earlier than 11. Just bear in mind that some kids change considerably from the age of 6/7 yo to 10/11 so your DD could be more than ready and up for the challenge at the 11+. Even if your school aims for SPGS or G&L it’s down to you and your DD to go for the school she likes the best and is most comfortable with.

And as others say you could try the 7+
or 8+ for the experience without the pressure.

Your DD isn't academic enought for G&L, but you want LU ?? That doesn't make any sense.

Did she get in the lottery at Bute? If so Bute will guide your DD to an appropriate school, ( Any prep worth its salt will guide your DD to the right school) even if the focus is on top schools for the bulk.

She's still young and could and go anyway, its way too early to write her off.

If she's not destined for Latymer Upper / St Pauls , there are tons of schools you can commute to Harrodian, Notting Hill and Ealing GDST, Queens , St James ...all of these schools would welcome a smart girl, don't buy into the West London hype....

@WLM2023 I agree with @Pointerdogsrule - it's far too early to know what would be a good academic fit. From what you say she's not even in KS2 yet? You will be amazed how things change, esp in Y5 - some girls suddenly flourish and exceed all previous (parental) expectations.

Nobody will deny that the 11+ is awful. But no child from the top 4 west London girls' prep schools is ever left without a place at a senior school. As PPs have said, you are spoilt for choice with London day schools for girls in west / sw London. SPGS / G&L won't suit every girl for all manner of reasons (many of them nothing to do with academics) but obsessing about those two schools leads to craziness anyway.

Like you, we considered a move at 7+ from DD's prep to a through school, and are so glad we didn't - options for 7+ are extremely limited, and although we hate the 11+ arms race, it does open up a ton more schools. Let your DD develop at her own pace, and don't start stressing too early or you'll be burnt out before the prep even begins!

I understand there is less coed options at 11+ unless you aiming for boarding at 13+ and if coed is important do try for 7+ Latymer. The process and feedback could be great to build on if you decide to go for 8+, 10+ and 11+.
All girls only schools have a few leaving for coed boarding at 13+.
Girls only at 7+ City could be a good one depending on travel and location.

No real harm in trying for latymer 7+ but our prep had about 15 kids sit for it this year (roughly 10 girls) and only 1 got a place. It is unlikely it is easier than 11+ but your dd won’t be stressed about taking it and will hardly remember it so give it a try!

OP, I don't think 7 plus for Latymer Prep would be significantly less competitive.

Also, if you think she is not academic enough for SPGS or G&L, then she won't be for LU either!

But how can you tell at this stage really? How old is she?

I can imagine there is significant pressure somewhere like Bute, if they are all aiming for / getting places at G&L or SPGS or LU at 11 plus and your DD would be one if the minority not sitting exams for those schools. I can understand why you might want to step off that conveyor belt now.

But there are lots of other options for girls at 11 plus - Kew House, Maida Vale House, NH and Eating High, Ibstock, St James, Harrodian, FHSS, FHRP, Queen's Gate, Fulham School ... Also, PHS and KGS would be worth a shot because, although competitive, they are not as crazy as LU or G&L or SPGS.

@WLM2023 is the prep telling you she's not on the path for more academic schools or was that assessing from something else? If it's coming from the school, my advice would be to move schools and ignore what they've said to you given she's 6! So much can change in the next few years. I agree with the recommendation for somewhere like Ravenscourt Prep (or Kew Green) which has amazing pastoral care. Send her to a school that will encourage her to flourish not make her feel bad about her achievements.

And fwiw, friends were told similar about their daughter aged 6, that she was bottom of the class and the academic prep might not be the best place for her. They moved her to a kinder coed prep and she went on to G&L.

LU had 1400 childeren sitting the 11+ exam for 100+ places. So I wouldn't count LU as an easy entry

Help her for 7+ then. No harm done anyway. And I am quite sure it will boost her confidence and potentially change the prediction from her current school. You might not want to move school later on. Based on the options you mentioned in your original post, there is no lack of resources. So either do it yourself or out source it to tutors; it is doable. My daughter did it this year and we have got really good results. Apart from the offers, she is more confident and somehow transformed.

There are plenty of private schools in West and South West London area for 11+, honestly it's very unlikely you'll be in the position of having nowhere. Wimbledon, Putney, Kew House, St Catherines, Radnor, Ibstock, Emanuel, Francis Holland, Queen's College - it's endless. Try her for 7+ at Latymer, Putney, Wimbledon, see how she does, if she gets in you don't then have to worry as they go all the way through, and if she doesn't get in, you can try again at 11+ and give plenty of other schools a go too.

Stats like this are meaningless though.

Of those 1400 how many are parents who really want LU? How many want LU as their top choice over schools just as high ranking. Let's assume most of them will be applying for at least 4 other schools, Maybe even half of that number may not even accept an offer if another school offers.

Most parents ( especially private school parents) have an inflated view of their DC) so many of that number wont have a snowball chance in hell of acing the entrance tests and interview

Then you have 'buyers regret' parents who faced with an offer realize, they can't afford to move/ can't afford fees, didn't get that scholarship offer/ bursary, have a grammar school offer and its too tempting , their head filled with Oxbridge state school bias rubbish.

No way have you 1400 kids, all capable, all motivated as their top choice, after 100 places.

Any top private school is actually easy to get into IF you have a kid who shines with intelligence or at least is smart and shines in sport/ social skills AND is blessed with parents who can afford the fees.

Pointerdogsrule what would be your point here? Saying that LU is an easy entry option as OP has assumed? It's - not. Maybe you would also say that 3000 childeren applying for 160 places in grammar school isn't challenging either?

See my previous post to OP, never said it was 'easy' , questioned the whole of OP's thinking actually.

My point to you these stats don't mean anything in the real world, saying 1400 children are pushing for 100 places reminds of the quote, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

And if that's confusing you, re-read my post, its clear what I'm calling this a classic case of useless stats...

Thank you, everyone, lots to think about.

Never intended to suggest that LU wasn’t hard to get into, just judging by results in our school that it appears easier than SPGS and G&L (many girls here apply to all three and I’ve never heard of someone getting into these two girls schools but not into LU, but plenty the other way round).

Plenty of great suggestions for other schools to explore - we’re in such an unhelpful bubble where it’s all just about such a small number of schools, it’s very easy to lose perspective. And no, no one told us that our daughter is struggling, she’s perfectly bright just not an early years genius and we also have not tutored from Reception to ensure earliest prep for SPGS and hence I’m worried that it all compounds down the road. I do realise how completely ridiculous that sounds! But, ridiculous or not, it is the reality for many in my pocket of the world.

Thank you for putting me straight!

traditionally you are correct about spgs and g&l vs latymer but this year at 11+ the g&l and latymer admissions were not as straightforward. I know a few girls who got g&l and not latymer. Generally those girls were on the lu waitlist but it never moved for them.

@WLM2023 The SW London private school bubble is a place of madness (we're in it too). But if someone is private tutoring their child in Reception /KS1 on top of prep school in order to get into SPGS, that child possibly has a very difficult road ahead. I know it doesn't feel like it, but your DD has a long way to go before 11+. Ignore the hysteria, and she (and you) will be fine!

@WLM2023 , understand your viewpoints. We know families that got into those 2 schools, prep start at reception extra worksheets in English and Maths at weekends. Creative writing camps in summer, etc. Spanish or French au pair or nanny that will speak in that language so they are bilingual. Pushed into music and grading, we found in secondary schools that kids that wanted to do the music will continue and not drop their instruments because they were pushed to do only exams pieces. It depends on family viewpoints, we really wanted an all rounded education and not just grades and only grades. So do look at the types of school and their culture fit to your DC personality and interest.

"Of those 1400 how many are parents who really want LU? How many want LU as their top choice over schools just as high ranking. Let's assume most of them will be applying for at least 4 other schools, Maybe even half of that number may not even accept an offer if another school offers."

But pointersdog - you could say exactly the same about any school. Those going for G&L and SPGS will also be applying for other schools. The fact remains, LU has more applicants per place than G&L and SPGS. The greater the numbers, the greater the competition and also the 'lottery' aspect of offers. I have had DC at G&L, LU and SPGS and I felt as if LU was probably more competitive at 11 plus (1,400 candidates v 900 for 100 places) - even though the two girls schools get slightly better GCSE results.

Pointerdogsrule - Also, "private school parents" may potentially have an inflated view of their kids abilities (if you say so) - but prep heads will not write references for pupils who they believe have no chance of getting into a certain school. So effectively, people cannot apply to schools where the DC don't have a cat in hell's chance. Prep heads will not undermine their reputation or professional judgment by wasting parents' time, schools' time and most importantly, children's time. If your child has no chance at a school they will tell you in no uncertain terms!

We went through 11+ a few years ago with an average academic child and were also freaking out about it all but actually ended up with handful of offers and everyone we know also had a good range of offers. There are a lot of really great schools in the West London area and as long as you go into the process not being too fixated on one specific school then you will be fine. Just take advice from your school when applying, pick a few stretch options, a few realistic options and few backup options and you will be absolutely fine. Also if you do decide to do 7+ then I would definitely chat to your current school about it, I think you'll find they will be happy to advise. Good luck!

We know lots of State schools kids that don’t have Heads that write references and they can get to these top schools. In fact it may even be better for some kids who shine in exams and interviews, purely on their own merit.