Help: West London 7+ or 11+ for a girl? Latymer?

[WLM2023]

Looking for Mumsnet wisdom please!

DD is in the lower school of a highly academic West London prep with highly competitive entry. She’s smart, but probably not super academic and she’s not on a path to get into St Paul’s or G&L (which is what her school mainly aims for). I’m terrified that we might have no options come 11+ as the London system is so, so, so competitive. We live in West London and want her to go to a day school, no boarding under any circumstances.

She and we adore her prep and would love her to stay there forever and ever, but I wonder whether we should try to move her to an all-through school at 7+, as I understand that entry at that point is less competitive. The obvious one would be Latymer which we love the sound of and I suspect her chances will be even better at that point given that she’s a girl and there aren’t as many trying co-ed at 7+. I’m not sure she would get in at 11+ and then we might have few to no options.

Have others been in a similar situation? How hard is that 7+ and when do you realistically need to start preparing, likely with a tutor, bearing in mind that she will have zero help from her current school which is fully geared towards 11+ exits (and starts prepping for that in year 4). Also, at what point would Latymer want references? I suspect our school would not look kindly on girls leaving, and if she then weren’t to get in, we might have a problem.

Lastly, which other schools might we consider? Highgate and Alleyn’s are too far, Thomas’s I don’t think is going to go through until A-levels now and pupils need to change at 16? Is FHSS automatic entry from prep to public?

Thank you so much!!

Yes because they look at everything contextually and they know very well that some heads don't write references, so don't expect it.

I was talking about prep school heads who are very much expected to write references and the whole point of their role is to advise children on suitable 11 plus schools. So those children from preps (which is about half of applicants, I think) will not be ones who "wont have a snowball chance in hell of acing the entrance tests and interview." They will all have been assessed as capable of coping at that school or the head would have refused to write the reference.

Guessing your daughter is a reception entry at Bute from your description. Mine was too.

I think you may be over thinking this a bit if so. Not every family at Bute is aiming for the Hammersmith schools. Every girls from Bute gets a spot at a good school.

You shouldn't keep your daughter at Bute only if you think it's about being a top genius, you should keep her there because it's a great school that turns out happy well adjusted girls who are confident and love learning.

It's sounds like she is happy there and getting on fine. If she was struggling and hated it, the advice would be different.

11+ isn't fun, but not sure I would overly stress for the 7+ based on your assumptions that your daughter isn't top tier (you can't even definitely say that at this age)

Lastly, I would encourage you to discuss these concerns with the school. I suspect they will reassure you. I know for certain they won't hold it against you.

Also don't confused the parents chat about target/acceptable schools.

Your prep will have a much wider view of where the girls should go and where they consider to be perfectly great options.

The West London schools rat race is large being led by a parent pied piper, not the actual preps themselves. Try not to get too caught up in the stream.

I wrote - "Most parents ( especially private school parents) have an inflated view of their DC) so many of that number wont have a snowball chance in hell of acing the entrance tests and interview"

Key word here, "acing" . Most prep heads won't stop a pupil who will certainly pass LU entrance from applying, despite being warned its a stretch for the pupil acing the entrace. Here they might suggest LU as a inspirational, and suggest more realistic options.

I've seen this, many heads and parents in agreement, packing off children to sit for schools all parties know they'll be lucky to get into, with their other choices far more realistic and some back up choices to that if all else fails.

It seems to be the norm now to have 'inspirational' choices at 11+ for kids who aren't the stars of the Prep, where the head no doubt will reference this is a stretch for the child.

I agree my language was overblown with 'snowball chance' a true candidate with little chance of passing the entrance at all and the parents going against the head would mean a reference saying exactly that,( but in London certainly, it happens all the time.)

When stats like 1400 for 100 places are rolled out, it stokes the madness of 11+.

I don't think it's an easy for girls to get in to Latymer at 7 - the ones I know who did are fearsomely academic and gone on to amazing things. But if you want to give it a shot, as well as the other schools people have mentioned, it can't hurt, just don't stress yourself and your dd about it, keep it low key. Be honest with dd's school - say this is your concern and would this be a sensible strategy - schools loose a few kids at 7+ every year, they won't take it personally. But everyone is right your dd will end up with a school place and reception is WAY too early to worry about this, if she's happy where she is I'd leave her be ...

Firsthand knowledge of Latymer 7+ really don’t think you need to be super brainy to get in at all. My DD was/is bright but no way exceptional and got through without any prep on a whim . The bigger question is whether LU is your ultimate senior school as it will be very hard to move elsewhere , given the pace at Latymer prep is much slower than other prep schools…. And the school is very modest in terms of teaching quality. Definitely worth giving it a go. If that’s the route you want to take honestly think people over blow how smart you need to be at 7plus at least for the girls I don’t know the boys system . I agree with above posters it’s much easier 7+ the kids don’t really notice they go in answer some questions and have a snack whether they move at seven or not will also be much easier.

And to add that they ask for reference from prep school if your child is invited to second round interview so yes, not ideal as in your prep will know that you’re looking to move prior to having an offer.

I think that's a bit insulting to all the girls at LP! As I say, the ones I know/knew are pretty stellar and I know the school tracks outcomes and the prep kids end up getting identical results to the ones who get in at 11+. But I agree that generally there's a lot of hype around 7+, everyone needs to be prepped since birth bla bla and it's just not necessary - ditto 11+ start end of year 5 with a bit of extra help and you'll be fine.

Or rather, it's a bit insulting to parents of dc who didn't get in to LP at 7, know lots who didn't - their kids seem pretty bright.

@berrymummy
c. "The bigger question is whether LU is your ultimate senior school as it will be very hard to move elsewhere , given the pace at Latymer prep is much slower than other prep schools…. And the school is very modest in terms of teaching quality."

Could you please expand on your thoughts about teaching at LU. I have never seen or heard anything like this before about LU. How one of the top schools in the UK may be referred to as modest in teaching quality....?

Definitely not looking to insult anyone at all. I also know plenty of bright girls and boys who didn’t get in. I think there’s a lot more than just academic results but I could be wrong that they consider… and just luck really. Not saying it’s easy just not as impossible as some people imply.
@Sunandstars123 just to clarify, I wasn’t referring to Latymer upper school only to the prep the teachers and the leadership are different and I would say the prep teaching quality does not match the upper school, which I do believe is excellent.

HT DC is in LU prep and I'm sure he would be hands on to oversee teaching quality.

Also, new HT joining LU in September used to work for SPGS and Eaton and her DH used to study in LU and they live locally and know all the vibes and needs of local schooling. So I'm very positive about LU and LU prep future.

You’re absolutely right, the new head is a great hire and I’m really glad that there’s “new blood” coming onboard if I’m being honest . As I responded above, I wasn’t referring to the upper school where teaching is excellent from all accounts , The question was about the prep I believe. Having said that the teaching at the prep is not strong compared to neighbouring preps that has been the experience of quite a few parents, although not many like to talk about it and just tutor closer to year 7 to make sure their children are up to scratch. All of this is not purely hearsay but of course, take any info that is useful to you and everyone will have their one views. Back to the original OP topic just saying if she wants Latymer 7+, she shouldn’t be deterred by people saying it’s impossible and only for the super bright…..

I don't have a child at the Prep or has been through the Prep but surely the point of an All through school is that the teaching can be a bit different as they are not being judged on how many girls they send to SPGS/G&L etc unlike most of the pushy preps around that area. The vast majority of children stay on, more than at some of the girls all through schools and they seem to do fine at the Senior School so maybe they're just getting a slightly more rounded education than endless 11+ prep. The tutoring thing is slightly irrelevant as there is barely a child in a W London prep who isn't being tutored.

I had two dc at LP - I thought the standard of teaching was (nearly) all amazing and it was a fantastically happy and nurturing environment. Maybe standards have declined? Is it hard to get into - who knows, if your own dc succeeded you think obviously not (or I do) but as the other pp said the school is very careful to compare outcomes of pupils who joined at 7 and those who joined at 11 and they see no difference. Elder dc has left now and she and her friends have all gone on to amazing unis, with various awards and all sorts. But you don't need to worry about any of this with a 5-yr-old, the people prepping reception kids to get into SPGS at this age are loons. I know one family who did this and cannot tell you how spectacularly badly it all ended for the poor child. If she loves her current school and you do too then I'd stick with it

And IF all the children are being tutored in y6 to make sure they're on course for y7 (er, why?) then I think that speaks more of the way the parents have changed and the pushier they have become, as the school's grown more and more desirable and draws from a wider catchment area. Because no one dreamed of doing that in ye olden dayes, as veryverybored said entirely the point of the prep is you don't have to fixate on tutoring. Some people just can't help but over-fuss about their children's education.

I have an experience of LP. The entry is competitive or not depending on what your DD's ability is. It seems that if a girl is of average or higher ability in a prep, they tend to be fine at least for the first round of academic hurdle. This year, a girl we know had an LP offer and she is in a middle set for both English and Maths in a prep. Last year, 2 girls we know had Latymer offers but not Bute (one rejected and one waitlisted), or City (one of them applied and waitlisted). It is known that that LP academic assessment is very traditional in style and is very much tutorable compared to other nearby 7+ schools' assessment of potential. This is what prep prep schools and 7+ tutors say too.

It's a good school that avoid 11+. I like it. So if you like LU, do have a go at LP. If she's doing 'ok' at her prep, she is very much likely to clear their academic hurdle. But do prep her with past papers as their papers are designed for attainment more than potential and work well for the kids who got prepped well, rather than just naturally bright but not prepped.