Going from independent prep to state secondary

[kak808]

My DD is in Y4, so I’m a bit early to be thinking about this, but secondary school is fast approaching. We’re currently paying for prep but I don’t see us being able to afford this at the secondary level unless our financial situation improves considerably.

My DD has a lot of social anxiety and really struggles making friends. She is not someone who can cope with bullying and is SEN. I just worry about sending her to a comprehensive after her sheltered prep experience (very small school) and if she’ll deal with the change ok. I just envision her being referred to as “posh tw*t” every day a la Will from Inbetweeners 😭

Also, if we were to make the move to state and then it just really didn’t work out well would we basically lose the opportunity to get into an independent secondary or would her 11+ schools (assuming we still had her do them) kind of carry over if we were looking to make a change?

Unfortunately we’re unlikely to get into the one state comp (all-girls) that looks pretty good to me and I don’t hear great things about our closer (co-ed) schools.

Anyone been through similar and have advice?

@MrsMikeHeck I agree with your suggestion about doing open evenings and visiting during the school day. My kids go to state schools but DH is a teacher at a London independent; we have both been v impressed with what our local state schools have to offer.

Open evenings have a tendency to be a bit of staged performance, but if you are also able to go to an open day during the school day, it is extremely helpful, as you see break time/change over between lessons etc, and get a sense of daily life at the school.

Honestly it’s the VAT issue that is pushing me over the edge! I sort of thought we’d just find a way to make it work for independent secondary as well, but the VAT may do us in!

She doesn’t have an EHCP. The SENCO seems to think her academic achievement is high enough that it’s not warranted? She said we could go ahead with trying to get one but it sounds complicated and expensive so I’m not sure we’ll do that just yet.

Dd in year 9 went from a prep to a single sex private school. She struggled badly once she got there - self harm, suicide attempt - and since diagnosed with autism . While school very good when CAMHS got involved, they really don’t know how to cope with the autism side and we are always getting emails/phone calls. Dd2 is finishing prep and although we were expecting to carry on the private route, we’ve just accepted a place at a big state girls school and will consider whether we can move dd1 there

She’s 9, but yes, it’s a lot going on at a young age. I’m hoping to get things a bit more under control with her.

I only started thinking about this because the prep is beginning to talk about 11+ a bit with the Y4 parents. As I said somewhere else, I just assumed we’d stick with independent secondary, but now hearing about the VAT issue, that mail be the nail in the financial coffin for us! Therefore, suddenly I’m thinking about all of these things I hadn’t considered before.

We still have a lot of time and things with my daughter’s well-being, our finances, the government, etc. could still all change! I just had a sudden “oh sh!t” moment and felt I needed to get some input, so I appreciate all of the feedback.

I’m sorry your DD has such a hard time and I hope you’re able to find something that works for her!

Agreed. Will do.

Oh and at this point DD says she 100% wants a single sex secondary (which again were unlikely to get into on the state side), but maybe her views on that will change with time. She just finds all the boys in her class to be annoying and disruptive. Can’t disagree with her there!!

EHCPs are about far more than academic ability. You have nothing to lose by applying.

Thanks — I’ll look more into this. Unfortunately I really know nothing about ECHPs and only became of aware of them recently. Do you happen to have a good link or starting point for research?

IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites are good resources. Both charities also have advice lines.

Depends on your state school
options. Ours had great academic teachers but non existent SEN/ pastoral care. All schools are totally different especially now they are academies. In my experience there’s quite a lot of school hopping in year 7 and 8.

Yeah I guess I’ll just have to do lots of research. I was already overwhelmed at the thought of doing this for 4 independent schools, but now maybe 4 comps as well!

Much appreciated — thank you.

As you are renting could you move nearer the state girls’ school - assuming that will give you a better chance of getting in?

VAT on school fees… my personal view is it won’t happen. It would cost too much due to the additional state school places that would be needed, compared with what it would raise. It’s being waved around as an emotional vote winner but it doesn’t make economic sense in reality. I may be wrong of course - we will know more in a couple of years.

Also, if you are on a bursary now, that suggests you may well be eligible for one at senior level. Worth calling some bursars and asking.

From what you’ve said I suspect an ECHP is a stretch, let alone one naming a private school.

I was also going to ask about the possibility of moving closer to a single sex state secondary. Give yourself a little more choice.

Can't help with the independent prep to state secondary but I would say visit the secondary schools ASAP. This coming autumn definitely as they usually hold their open evenings then.

It’s possible we could move, but we absolutely love where we are currently! We pay an arm and a leg but we’re actually getting quite a bit for our money and something of similar price elsewhere would probably be a massive downgrade. We’d really love to stay where we are, but it is of course something to consider.

We've been in the state system and seen the independent system up close too. My daughter is moving to an independent school from an incredible state secondary very soon.
It's quite frustrating that parents analyse their state school options to the nth degree, but there is an automatic assumption that private is better. This is really, really not the case, especially if there is SEN involved.
Look at your options carefully.
Also, If such a young child is in therapy, you should also be looking at going. A lot of parents don't realise that through their parenting they may be subconsciously causing their child's issues or making them worse. If anything, therapy for the parent helps them understand their child's struggles and learn to deal with them appropriately. It is also a bit unusual for a child that young to be so adamant they want a single sex school.
Here is an interesting read:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20390807/

Also, small schools can make social anxiety much worse.

@kak808 I think people have been a bit harsh judging your concerns about state secondary - the way I read your post is that it's the size of the schools that concerns you. This is my concern for my son. He is AuDHD, no EHCP, been in a 3 form entry state mainstream primary, but finds it overwhelming. He doesn't like going to crowded places, we now actively avoid places like shopping centres, school fetes etc as he finds the sensory overload too much.
We decided a small, local, independent school would be ideal for him, but all those we approached said they "couldn't meet need". To be honest I think that they just have the luxury of cherry picking as we live in an affluent area where there seems to be no end to the money people have to chuck at private education.
Interestingly, the independent SEN advisor I spoke with to help me "persuade" the privates to take my son, told me she felt they were the wrong schools for him and that he would fare much better in a mainstream state secondary with an EHCP. We now have no choice but to go down this route, unfortunately got given a secondary that noone else in the school is going to, but will appeal for the one all his friends got, and go on the waiting list.
BTW I don't get the comment about "labelling with anxiety and ADHD". Anxiety isn't a label, it's something someone suffers with. By observing my son's anxiety I am not labelling him! Nor does his ADHD diagnosis "label" him - it recognises that part of his brain doesn't function like other people's and that giving him medicine before he goes to school in the morning enables him to concentrate in class and boosts his self-esteem as he is able to undertake the tasks required of him.
All the best with working out what is best for your daughter. It sounds like you are on top of everything you need to be - it is such hard work though isn't it. I think you're right to be looking into it at this stage, I waiting until year 5 and feel it was too late - though we were in the middle of Covid back then, so I couldn;t do much about it!

State secondary teacher in Surrey here - lots of state schools, including mine, have excellent behaviour and very little bullying. Don't worry too much, just visit and see what you think. Choose a school with a good support system which can look after your daughter if she needs social/mental health support.

I just envision her being referred to as “posh tw*t” every day a la Will from Inbetweeners 😭

@kak808 Do you honestly believe that in comprehensive schools are only poor kids ? Do you have some sort of tragic comprehensive as the only choice that you picture some bullying? If that is the case- move. This country is full of great comprehensive schools

My Polish builder sends his kids to private school. The child of annd Indian shop keeper at the corner of my street goes to private school. Are they posh in your opinion?

Exactly my son is now joining fab Catholic school in Surrey.

Op, my first hand experience with private is that yes, they are super tough on bullying and actions taken literally the very same moment they learn about it.

Re places - given VAT and level of movement from private to state that I'm seeing I do believe there will be a lot of occasional places esp in less selective schools.