Entrance exam for West London schools - how hard?

[Hihellohi]

Hi everyone

my Daughter will be applying for Sept 2024 entry to a number of schools in west London:
G&L
Latymer
NHEHS
Francis Holland
LEH

for the girls (boys who did Latymer too) how hard is the exam?
Do you think these choices are all too intense?

I would really like my daughter to get into the first three, and she’s really smart but makes silly mistakes in homework/workbooks which she only she’s after and that costs her marks.

are these too ambitious?

TIA for any advice

I am unfamiliar with Latymer and LEH, but based on the others, I think it's a good list due to the range of selectivity covered

G&L is probably the hardest (about 1 in 10 get in I think?) - so let's say that's your 'aspirational' choice. Probably Latymer too sits here.

Target schools then are NHEHS and FH. Though NHEHS is more selective I believe (sorry, don't have the numbers, they don't publish how many apply). NHEHS reject a lot after interviews which are bit of a hit and miss and luck plays a role there. And both the FH schools have become much more competitive in recent years.

I feel you need a banker choice, a good school where your DD has a very high chance of getting a place. Will St Augustine (in Ealing) suit? It's less selective than NHEHS. We didn't consider it because it's a faith school (catholic), but otherwise there is a lot going for it and I have heard very good things about it.

Is LEH your banker choice? (Sorry, don't know anything about it)

Lastly if you have a cat score for DD it's easier to decide, but I am guessing you don't since you are posting here?

This post has the average cat score of DDs who received offers from various London girls' indies. (Scroll up for coed data)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4749433-cat-scores-required-for-sw-london-boyscoed-independent-schools?msgid=124146983#124146983

Even if you don't have the average cat score for your DD, it will give a rough idea of how selective the school are relative to each other

It's three years old data though and some places may have become more competitive, but relative position in table hasn't changed much probably

My dd will be going to G&L this September. My advice to you, is have your dd do atom learning to get an idea of her mock scores. Even if you only do it for a couple months, it will help you get an idea of where she stands. Also, just because she does not reach the scores at the start, does not mean all is lost. It really depends also if she is prepared or not. If she comes from state school, she needs a tutor to help cover what is not being covered in time for the exam because state schools are one year behind private (my dd is in state school). We got a tutor end of May in year 5 and she start atom learning at the same time. Atom suggests mock scores of 125+ for G&L and I think it was 122+ for Latymer?

Sorry, I should be more clear, the atom mock scores are different to the CATs, so please do not confuse them. I think for casts they need to be higher so 130+ My dd never did CATs though, this is just what I have been told.

Hi,

really helpful replies - thank you

@justanotherdaduser no, probably don’t have a “banker” school no, but will now look into it.
I am reluctant to apply to St Augustine’s for the same reasons as you, I don’t really want her at a faith school.
I can get CAT scores from her school, let me see if I can find them

@SamPoodle123 well done and congrats for your daughter getting in, how did you find the whole process?

she is doing work on Atom provided by school, would you recommend getting the parent paid option too?
this will be on top of her school work, tutor work 🫣

I'm not an expert on these schools but have been hanging around on that SW London thread for the last 6 months 😂
It seems to me that these are all tricky schools to get into, which is fine, but you probably need to bin one of them and add one or two which are easier to get in to. Don't go for more than 6 schools, there madness lies. Tbh we went for 6 and I regret it! 4-5 would be more sensible.

For us, it was quite laid back. My dd is in state school, so no pressure at all. And her school work is like 30 mins a week. They do not do atom at school, so Atom at home was a must. It helped her get used to the exam format for the online tests. And the tutor helped cover what she missed out not being in a private school. If your dc is in a state school, they will be behind by one year. My dd enjoyed the whole process. She liked taking the exams and loved the interviews.

My son will go to LU in September. He also got academic scholarships to Hampton and KCS, and a place in tiffin. We were always aiming at 85% in test books for 11+ preparation. And yes, he also did silly mistakes, as all kids do.

He used to score himself and would go through mistakes. I would tackle with him things he wouldn't get after his own second review.

I believe the key to success is largely on whether DC is interested in reading.

Wow @Sunandstars123 congrats

my daughter also loves reading but I don’t know tbh
i’m at a loss tbh. I’ve given her papers to mark but she doesn’t give a shit tbh. If she does well she’s happy but if she doesn’t then she doesn’t care - when I am perplexed when she gets stuff wrong that she was getting right before.
@SamPoodle123 she’s at a private prep - so she gets about 30 mins of hw a night plus her other activities and down time (which I think is important) and fam time.
I feel like her blasé attitude is going to do her a disservice (or she’s going to realise too late) but then I have my internal struggle of wondering why am I pushing her then? Just let her be and be happy.

also I meet a lot of parents at school who keep saying “oh yeah we just did what the school told us to do and nothing extra” - how much of this is BS? Why don’t people just be open that their children have tutoring?

@KindergartenKop any recs for 1-2 easier to get into schools?

@Hihellohi I'm not very au fais with the girls schools. Surbiton high maybe? @SamPoodle123 is the girls' school veteran :)

@Hihellohi , your prep will advise you if your dd needs a back up to NHESH or FHSS, they know your dd and her abilities. Also speak to parents in year 6 and see if everyone has now got a place and what the back up schools are. You are paying for support and advice from your prep, it's a really long road with the peak being from November so probably best to go easy now.

Maybe she thinks this is all too much pressure for her and is pushing back.
it seems to be something you want more than your child.

hi @ballsdeep you are probably right - it is probably something I want more than her (isn’t that the same for any parent that applies on behalf of their child to one of these (and similar) schools?
maybe because of my position (being the parent, having the experiences that I have in and outside of mum life) I know how much opportunity and potential this can unlock/I know that she would thrive/ isn’t it my job to open these avenues for her (as I would for my other kids too, they are just not at this stage yet)
if she doesn’t get in, she doesn’t get in and that’s fine but I want to do everything I can to help her?

with regards to pressure - apart from her tutor work (she can’t be only kid who has a tutor, otherwise all these tutors wouldn’t be busy and booked up) - that’s why I wanted to know if additional Atom work is worth it. I obviously cannot stop her school homework as that needs to be done regardless.

maybe I should just leave it up to the school?

@redrobin75 good point. I think the lists will be published soon so I will find out who to speak to parent wise.

Thanks all, lots of food for thought.

@Hihellohi if your DD is at a private prep, the school should be advising you on the range of schools to apply to. We have just gone through the process with our DD (SW rather than W London) and by late Spring of Year 5 we had spoken with the school and had a fairly good idea of what would be aspirational / realistic / bankers. Your lists is rather "punchy" and, as others have said, you might want to consider adding a less competitive school. Similarly, we trusted the school to do the prep and did not engage a tutor (in fact, our prep actively did encourages it - if the school covers the whole syllabus, another source covering in a different manner can prove confusing).
Lastly, I would encourage you to keep an open mind and not focus too much on rankings - the schools you mention are widely different in ethos, culture and even location. Visit them (and others), ideally with your DD, and get a feeling for the place and the community.
Good luck with the process.

@Hihellohi If your DD is at a private prep, then they probably do CATs, so I would ask for those scores in the first instance as they'll give you a benchmark as to how bright she is, and help fashion that list of schools. Or do you have her CAT scores already? If so, sharing those here would be useful in helping people to advise on good fit schools.

As PPs have mentioned, presumably you'll have a meeting with her current school to discuss senior school applications / choices - when does that meeting happen? They know your DD best academically (and a lot better than any of us on here!) so will be best placed to advise on whether your current list is realistic.

As regards your observation that she doesn't really care about any of this: I think you need to listen to that, and be honest with yourself and her about what a happy and productive learning environment is going to be like for her for the next seven years. If she's not naturally driven, then putting her in a very high-ambitious, high-achieving school may not be best for her (or her mental health) over the crucial teenage years. There are plenty of "gentler" schools which are still fantastic academically and get great results but which perhaps would suit her better. The worst thing any of us can do with senior schools is try to fit a square peg into a round hole just because of a school's reputation / league table position.

Have you visited any of the schools yet? If so, did any of them instinctively feel like a good fit for your DD? And if not, most schools have summer term open days which are beginning to be booked now, so I'd get booking!

@Hihellohi In response to your post "she’s at a private prep - so she gets about 30 mins of hw a night plus her other activities and down time (which I think is important) and fam time.
I feel like her blasé attitude is going to do her a disservice (or she’s going to realise too late) but then I have my internal struggle of wondering why am I pushing her then? Just let her be and be happy.
also I meet a lot of parents at school who keep saying “oh yeah we just did what the school told us to do and nothing extra” - how much of this is BS? Why don’t people just be open that their children have tutoring?"

I would say the dc needs to be motivated to do the work, otherwise they might struggle at the more academic schools. My dd was motivated to prepare. Although, she did not do a massive amount compared to what I have heard some children doing. She did have tutoring once a week on Tuesday and then did atom learning for an hour a week (more closer to the time of exams). If she ever was not in the mood to prep, I would say okay that is fine, I leave it up to you, but remember other children are prepping long before you started so. She only started prep end of year 5 bc we did not realise until last minute she would do 11+. She does a lot of activities basically 1 or 2 things a day. Only free day is Tuesday, which was the day we had her do tutoring. But she also manages down time and was having play dates every week and sleepovers almost every week. She likes to keep busy! She also loves reading loads, which helps. I would say I am sure there are plenty of parents who down play what they do and some are more open. Many in prep school have tutors and do additional prep. My dd is coming from state school, so def needed to prep. What helped was her doing mocks so we knew she was at a good enough level when applying to the schools.

Have you asked your dd what school she wants to go to? My dd was always keen on G&L, but also liked Putney, FHSS and Emanuel, but her first choice was G&L. She understood it is a difficult school to get into.

I am now going through it with my ds. Although, we have an earlier start with him because we know he will do 11+ and he is doing a little prep now. He is also very keen.

Funny you say that :) When we started I felt so lost about the schools! I had no idea at all. No guidance from our head, felt I was going in blind, but now I do feel like an expert a few months later ;) Now, I am going to do the same for the boys schools lol.

Maybe I’m being hugely naive here but do people really need to pay for tutors on top of prep school fees to get their kids into these schools? Surely that’s what you’re paying for with the school?!

@Businessflake We did not tutor - our rationale was that we pay the prep to prep and also that if she needed tutoring to get in, she was likely to get tutoring to maintain pace if she got in.
We got offers for all schools we applied for, with a couple of academic scholarships. We were relatively moderate in our ambitions (for instance, prep suggested considering some uber-selective but they were not convenient in terms of logistics and/or it was not a good fit personality wise....plus I believe that the difference between a school ranked 30 and a school ranked 15 is rather marginal...we were not willing to compromise convenience and ethos for the sake of that.

DD is off to WHS, her (and ours) preferred option.
Quite a few of our friends' children, without tutoring and trusting the prep, got offers from a range of rather selective schools (WHS, JAGS, KGS, LU, Alleyns).
So, in summary, trust the prep, follow their advice on ambition and preparation and be guided by your child and their personality.

Need tutoring rather than get tutoring (first paragraph of the above

I would think not, but I hear many do.

My DS is at a state school. I didn't want to hire a tutor so worked with him at home instead from the beginning of year 5. He did a couple of English week long courses during the summer before the exams and attended a weekly olympiad style maths course with a few other children his age from mid year 5. He's going to LU in September and had other offers including an academic scholarship at Emanuel.

This is tutoring in a different type of way. When I say my dd was tutored, she did a weekly zoom session with a group of kids starting from the end of year 5....which is basically like a math or English study group.