With Oxbridge taking less and less private school students, is it still worth it??

[SillySmart]

stats shows that the number of private educated students Oxbridge enrolled has dropped 1/3 in the past 5 years. Any thoughts?

Forget about the Oxbridge issue. Just read some threads on here about what state schooling is like at the moment in the UK and the shortage of staff and resources at secondary school. If I was starting out again with young kids, I would choose private just to give my kids a shot at a decent education, nothing to do with snobbery. Of course, the lack of teachers will eventually affect the private sector. But for now the level of funding and resource in the private sector are way above state schools.

If you have a decent private school near you and can afford it, take the place. So your child has a chance of a consistent teacher and some breadth of subject choice when it matters.

Absolutely.

I think I've probably worded my post badly as I'm not sure what I'm trying to say has been fully understood.

But everyone has gripes about contextualisation. Everyone says it's not fair but it's up to the institution to decide and they can't cover every eventuality.

I would argue that my son potentially 'deserves' contextualisation more than others, but it's life really. Hard to explain that someone with no disadvantages other than divorced parents and postcode can get onto the equivalent course at an institution like UCL with ABB rather than AAA but they simply can't consider every scenario.

So to the point of this thread, I don't think private school parents have a right to moan, it's about levelling the playing field. It's not harder for private school children when you look at the admissions reports, they still are statistically overrepresented if you look at the population as a whole.

This ! The proportion generally reflects the number of pupils getting top grades and that's a good thing. Privates used to have a relative advantage as they got more of the top grades and that has diminished.

Equity is good

I remember when my son was at Bristol being asked by him to take some sports bag to a university friend near us (who had had a contextual offer) and the house was worth £3m! That person had also had some additional funding - some kind of bursary I think too. They were pretty rich but I don't blame anyone using the system correctly if they qualify and I am still happy I paid school fees for my children as there are lots of reasons I did, certainly not to secure Oxbridge places.

I don't either.

There are people who claim that their child lives with the non resident parent though and that narks me.

Definitely some do play the system.

Anyway, if they work hard and get decent grades then they will get into excellent universities and succeed in life.

Oxbridge is always a lottery because of the brand and because almost everyone who applies fills the criteria on paper. I just don't understand all the whining about perceived disadvantage. Oxford isn't the be all and end all.

Contextualisation - it's impossible to come up with a perfect system.

One aspect that doesn't seem to be examined (or at least I don't think it is), is the cultural capital e.g. how many generations before have been to uni / are middle class?

Imagine a Cambridge-educated parent coming from a family where everyone - and several generations - have been to uni and good ones at that. This person perhaps then went into teaching (where salaries sadly are lower) and so perhaps lives in one of those aforementioned 'contextual' postcode areas, their kid attending state school (poor to mid performing) but who is likely with all that familial positive context (several generations going to uni, a sense that it is possible to go to uni even if at a poorly performing school) - and with a teacher in the family - is likely to be excelling. Likely to get a contextualised offer.

Compare that to a family where both parents come from working class, no uni education but who have 'worked themselves up' to earn good money and decided to send their child to private school. Their kid is likely to have a lot less 'advantage' educationally compared with the example above.

However, as the system doesn't consider context to such granularity, it is of course absolutely right that a state educated child (with some caveats) with the same grades as one from private school, should be prioritised. Research has shown - as mentioned above - that state school educated students go on to do better so there is some empirical evidence in all of this.

Level of parent's education is one of the questions asked on the UCAS application, and can also be used by universities when considering applications.

I haven't read the whole thread, so don't know if it's already been mentioned, but one thing to bear in mind is the huge differential in terms of subjects. Last year, the percentage of Oxford students enrolled for Earth Science from state schools was 83%. The percentage for Classics was under 50% (unsurprisingly), and for both Modern Languages and Music less than 60%. It depends what your DC are interested in, of course, but some subjects are woefully under-supported (and in some cases almost dead or dying out) in all but a small number of state schools, and if you've got DC who are interested in those areas (regardless of Oxbridge ambitions) then they are far more likely to be able to pursue those interests in a private school.

I also agree with the poster above that an equilibrium of sorts has probably been reached. The percentage of Oxford state school students actually fell very slightly in the last two years, and some of the private schools have seen their percentages increase very slightly after historic lows. Oxbridge and the like are quite rightly keen to make sure they're not missing out on talent from the state sector - but equally, they don't want to be losing brilliantly talented students from the private sector.

Bristol has a rather odd way of giving contextual offers - even my children got contextual offers from Bristol, because their school was on a massive list of schools whose students get contextual offers from Bristol if they apply and are successful in their application, regardless of any other factors. I was most surprised, I have to say! The list of English and Welsh schools which attract contextual offers from Bristol runs to 32 pages. There will be plenty of children with well educated, well heeled, educationally ambitious parents in amongst the students at schools from a list that long. My children certainly weren’t eligible for a contextual offer anywhere else they applied to!

Yes, the Bristol list of “aspiring” schools is really odd. There’s a local school included that doesn’t even have a 6th Form, and Peter Symonds College, which sends a large number of students to Oxbridge and RG universities every year.

Right meaning affluent? The assumption that in privated schools are only kind and good kids is funny. Plenty of spoiled and entitled kids too

People have very strange ideas about contextualisation- they seem to think it's an ill-considered, under researched practically random process designed to do their children out of the university places they deserve-but that it's easily circumvented. None of these things are true.

Loads still go from private schools as well. I heard they take relatively lesser bright students in from state sector, as they are giving preference to them in comparison to private school students.

Right type of students doesn’t mean affluent!!! It means those who are bright irrespective of the schools they are coming from. Many grammar schools or state schools are in affluent areas where parents can afford private education but don’t as they want to take advantage of the system. Instead they spend money on private tutors!!! This whole social engineering thing is a farce!

You 'heard' it - where, and who from? Where are you getting this rubbish?

As has been explained to you several times on this thread already, Oxbridge are looking for potential. It is possible that a pupil at a not very good comprehensive has more potential than a pupil at a private school who gets the same grades

Hi thing47 please stop condescending. I have heard it from my family and friends and have first hand knowledge on the process from my background. Please do not speculate and try to intimidate by your rude remarks. If you have nothing positive to add please stop 🛑
I won’t respond hereafter as I honestly can’t deal with this type of rudeness.

There isn't even any grammar provision in our county. It's a fairly deprived area where the polar/tundra scores are in the toilet. DD is predicted 3A* in physics, maths, and chemistry and will also get a contextual offer due to being a young carer.
Are you suggesting you should get a place in front of her because you paid for it? I'd say her grades were so much harder fought for and too right she deserves a level playing field.
I've heard sniping because she's already having calls every week with Cambridge with a view to hopefully attending summer school there, further increasing her chances of being accepted. If that happens it'll be a welcome respite for her. Why should wealth be a factor in any of this?

Yes @Scalby she should get a contextual offer. But she will be competing with those who have done 4-5 A levels at my DCs grammar and they have all done Further Maths so some catch up will be required. Oxbridge is stressful so bear this in mind. There is a ton of work and there are loads of naturally bright kids from all walks of life and I would never encourage a child to go whose confidence is not up to that level of competition. It can be daunting. So if she is naturally driven and clever of course she should go for it. Her background has hopefully given her lots of resilience.

@MitHolmes " I heard they take relatively lesser bright students in from state sector, as they are giving preference to them in comparison to private school students."

You heard wrong.

It's not condescending to point out that the data doesn't support your posts.

As I said on a previous post there is robust, large-scale research to indicate you are incorrect in what you are saying. If you have contrary evidence please feel free to point us all in the right direction. I'd genuinely be interested.

There's no speculation involved, there is no evidence that 'lesser [sic] bright students from the state sector' are being given preference. If you are going to state these things as if they are facts, you need to back them up.

And I am free to post whenever and wherever I like, as are you. If you continue to post things that aren't true, I will continue to point this out.

This strategy doesn't work! Admissions offices in universities are not that dim.

Presuming they are after contextual offers. These are only given to pupils attending schools which historically send low numbers of pupils to university, or who live in postcodes with disadvantaged populations. They also look back to where applicants sat their GCSEs so decamping from private school for sixth form is a waste of time.

They cottoned on to it a long time ago.

Yes @Scalbyshe should get a contextual offer. But she will be competing with those who have done 4-5 A levels at my DCs grammar and they have all done

The vast majority of the country does not have grammar provision and most comprehensive schools don't offer the possibility of 4-5 A-levels. Oxbridge takes the type of state school into account as well as state/private.

They don't take less bright pupils. They make slightly lower offers to pupils attending schools with severe challenges where achieving anything approaching good grades is an uphill and lonely struggle. Much harder I would argue than cruising to spoons fed stellar grades at private schools.

So it's an attempt at some kind of levelling of the playground but the private schools still give huge advantages. There's still a long way to go.

majority of comments and users in this thread are not answering the question or discussing any direct answer. I would be grateful to hear from private school parents their view and opinion as we need to make the decision next year. We could afford private, from our income however will be loads of sacrifices, with potential 20% VAT increase and be discriminated by top Univ, indeed is it still worth it?