CAT scores required for SW London boys/coed independent schools

[Carmenbeeeater]

Hi,

My son is 18 months away from sitting the 11/13+, so we are at the very beginning of the process.

However I am feeling a little in the dark as to which schools we should be looking at and attending open days for etc, based on his ability and academic potential.

His Year 4 mean CAT score was 125, with very similar scores in all areas (ranging from 123 at the low end (NVR) and 128 (Quant) at the top end).

He is at a prep, so we will no doubt get guidance and advice from the head in the first term of Year 5. But in the meantime it would be good to get an understanding of the current average CAT scores required for the SW London independent schools.

Schools I currently consider possibly realistic are:

KGS
Emmanuel
Reeds
Epsom
St John's

I would also be interested to look at Hampton, RGS and KCS, but I suspect that his CATS might be too low/ these would be stretch schools. But be interested to hear thoughts on these too.

I have quite a strong view that I want my son to be happy, comfortable and thrive in his school environment, rather than scraping into a school and struggling to keep up.

He is confident, well spoken and happy boy who enjoys school very much and has a real love of learning. He is also very conscientious and happy to work hard, however but he is not at all competitive, quite quiet compared to his peers and would probably struggle in a very Alpha/highly competitive environment.

I'm aware this question has been asked many times before, however my understanding is schools are becoming increasingly selective and so the goal posts/CAT scores are constantly moving.

Thanks in advance!

My understanding is that a CAT 4 Score of 120 puts a child in the top 10 percent, as it is the 91st national percentile ranking. So definitely not average, but rather well about average and with potential for great GCSE and A Level outcomes. The average would be a CAT score in and around 100.

Pedantics aside, I agree that from what I've seen on MN the requirements to get into Emanuel are becoming more competitive year on year.

I wouldn't argue with anyone that its intake are all over 130 this year. I personally know someone who gives up King's for it.

7 years down the road, we would see at least half of its cohort get into Oxbridge, Medicine/dentistry or Ivies or top US colleges!

No doubt that Emanuel is more competitive to get in to than it was but kids have always turned down KCS, LU, St Paul's etc for other schools. Nothing new there.
Certainly know children this year and the last few who got in that weren't super bright but fitted the school. Also know boys who got into St P, KCS etc and didn't get into KGS, Tiffin, LU, Emanuel etc. They all know what they're looking for. To say that to get into Emanuel ( or any school for that matter) you have to have 130+ CAT score is simply not true. (Aside from which many parents haven't a clue what CAT scores their children have).

My language was careless, I admit. 120 is well above national average, but none of the schools on any of these chats are in the 100 range. They’re all selective because they are able to select students with 120+
scores. I was only making the observation that I am aware of 2 who are in that range, vs what is considered the super selective 130+ range. There is no chance that their entire intake this year is above that level, and I can say this with certainty because of the 2 children I know in the above average range of low 120s, but not in the super academic 130+ range.

I think Westminster and SPGS could see most of their intake with CATs over 130. For other schools, I would argue as it is up to whoever feels good.

We got offers from LU and Hampton. We didn't try Westminster, King's, or St Paul as we don't want DS to be at the bottom of the cohort even if he gets in.

For LU and Hampton, I understand that CATs scores of 125 would be enough. Between 120 and 125, some got in with well written exams, interviews, and school references.

I am happy to see another school rivaling Westminster and SPGS in the years to come!

My observation about Emanuel is that they will take kids with lower CAT scores (120s) if they come with extra bells and whistles or they are a sibling. We just accepted an offer for my DC to Emanuel so my due diligence on this has been quite intense the last few months!

Well, my DC is cello grade 5, singing grade 3, music theory grade 4 (plus other performance related things like LAMDA grade 3)- and she didn’t get a music scholarship. She did at other schools, so I’m guessing the benchmark is quite high….

@SamPoodle123 - so these would be the SAS scores for Atom tests, to which they say to add 8 points to get a CAT score?

If so, I think Atom are doing their standard practice of trying to scaremonger parents into thinking they need to do a ton more work (and thereby spend more time / money on Atom) in order to get their kids into their desired schools.

If Atom were to be believed, you'd need CAT scores of 133-138 for SPGS and CATs above 133 for G&L. As has been discussed elsewhere on MN at length, it's absurd to think that everyone who gets into these schools has scores like this. It's statistically unrealistic.

Atom are dreadful, imo - the platform is hopeless at actually setting work at the right level (all the work DD has done on it has been comically easy) and it's designed to get you to spend maximum time and money on it. I would take whatever Atom say with a huge pinch of salt!

St John’s is not a 125 average, 115 with a few good extra curriculars is more than fine. Lots of our set 3 and 4 boys will go there. Until recently, I’d never met anyone who had actually been turned down. Unfortunately though, so many people are applying for 6, 7, 8 schools that they’re having to turn more people away. I think there is a growing trend towards not making offers to kids they think will go elsewhere anyway. Schools are getting fed up with being seen as back ups, second best etc. and being played off against ofher schools.

Epsom feels like an average 120 but offers this year have been weird. Some very bright boys we know turned down, whilst some lower set boys got in. Remember it’s easier if you apply to board and if you apply for 13 as there is less competition. That’s the same everywhere.

With some of the more academic schools eg Hampton and KCS, yes you possibly could get in on a 125 but would you really want to? Most of the boys we know going to those schools are 130-135 or more so it’s one thing being able to get in and another keeping up with the cohort.

Also bear in mind that universities put a lot of emphasis on where you sit in your school cohort rather than your absolute grades, as it shows whether or not you’ve outperformed your peer group and allows for differences in schools. Eg if you’re underperforming a very academic cohort in a selective school then it will look bad on your uni application. If you’re outperforming your cohort in amy school, even a poorly performing school, then it’s much better.

Yes, it is Atom. Atom worked for us :) My dd is from state school so we found it extremely helpful. They offer Atom at many private schools (at least the ones in our area), but not in the state schools. I found it very useful to find out her level when doing the Mocks, so we had an idea of what schools to target. She got offers to all the schools she applied, so I felt it prepared her well. And from my experience, it was not Atom scaring parents, it was other parents for me (parents in real life). Many made it seem like the schools we applied to were impossible to get into or too academic. My dd never did CATs so I am not sure exactly how it works or if you add 8 points exactly, I think it was 8 points, someone mentioned it to me on here and Atom I think said the same. The scores did seem ridiculously high, but achievable.

@LondonMum20222 Also, what work is your dd doing on there? Is it just the learning journey's? Bc if yes, then that is meant to be easier. Not sure if those ever get more difficult, as we never did them enough.

Atom did prove to be some what accurate for applying private schools. In our experience if you can get consistently 130+ SAS scores in different school mocks you got good chance to get offers from every girls or coed private in London for 11+.

It is less accurate for top selective grammar though, partially due to the sample bias I assume.

Do you think the same for boy schools? Or less hard to predict? Our first is a dd so I agree on that, as she got into all the schools she applied. But we have a boy sitting the 11+ next and I am quite nervous about it. Esp since the boy exams all seem to be written.

Most of the admission exams dd did have significant written paper components, except London Consortium which is 100% online.

The Atom is online and multiple choice style so it is not the sole source we practice but it is a main source. The SAS score did provide a good insight for comparing peer relative levels, the other one provides with similar is sutton mock, the cohort is different to Atom sample.

For boys I think it is also useful, not the experience myself but a lot of the parents I know have their ds practice Atom for the Iseb pretest.