Was 11plus worth it for you/your DC?

[anonuser89]

Browsing through various posts here about 11plus results, offers and disappointments, and remembering our own experience of going through the process, I was wondering whether all this is really worth it?

Especially for competitive regions like London, the amount of effort, time, emotion (and money!) parents and DCs spend is so high. Then there is the tension, nail biting wait, heartbreaks, endless speculation, gossip, reviews and comparison of the same schools ad infinitum. Next year there will be another group of parents doing the same, probably some threads have already started.

Looking back, do you think it was worth all that?

Ultimately most DCs who did 11plus will end up in universities where significant majority will be from state sector, which suggests that it is perfectly possible to do well in the maintained sector as well.

Sorry, bit of a rambling post, and not being judgemental, after all we were caught up in the same frenzy a while back, but just wondering if people feel it was worth it?

For us, yes. But I think we were well advised and did is sensibly. Applied for three schools, total £450 for cost. All considered usually as ‘second choice’ banker-schools but for us were more focused on the feel of the school and the way our DD would fit there, over the gossip, ridiculous ‘reputation’-based stuff, league tables etc. Stayed calm and once we had one offer from a school we loved, DD withdrew from second round of another that was second choice and that was that. She’s 6 months into year 7 and flying - she gets so much more ‘input’ that friends at local state schools. Smaller classes, loads of clubs, academic stretch and she’s happy in herself which for me means it’s been a success. As you say, everyone will go to a good uni from all these schools. In ten years time most people will have a degree, good A levels etc, but it’s how they FEEL and how they are as people that is the most important thing to me, and that’s why it was all worth it. So far…

It was absolutely worth it here-all of mine went to grammar. It didn’t cost anything in money, though did take up a bit of time. All well spent though. Sadly our local school wasn’t great and DC’s friends who went there-all of very similar ability to mine through primary-got substantially lower GCSEs/A levels.

Ultimately most DCs who did 11plus will end up in universities where significant majority will be from state sector, which suggests that it is perfectly possible to do well in the maintained sector as well.

Interestingly, 5/6 of my DC’s current flat in halls are from grammar or private! Grammar is still state.

Our approach was different, so our experience will be very different to others (and I'm posting this because I looked for posts like this with a wildly different approach and experience-
In case it does help anyone 😁).

We weren't considering grammar school, in fact I didn't know much about the ones close to us (but not in our catchment area). It was only when someone asked (around May/June time), if he was siting the 11+ I decided to take a look.
Totally last minute decision (and we had missed the application deadline for one of the schools by then).

So no extra money spent, of course over the summer holidays decided to try and help.
DS got in which was nice surprise, and I'm glad we had a very laid back approach.

We put the grammar as second and ended up with grammar school 😂 however things have worked out and he's really enjoying his time there.

After reading threads on here, I realised how different our approach was. It is extremely sad reading people's posts, ones where 'my child has failed'- nothing more upsetting than an 10/11 year old carrying the burden of 'failure'.

I have another dc, and I do now wonder, will things be different by the time we apply for secondaries? Will there be a huge difference in the competition by then? More parents spending more money, with more 10/11 years studying material far beyond their scope?

DS has mentioned a dc in his year, who were tutored from year 4 onwards for the 11+. A few that came from prep schools so have also been tutored and trained for a while. So it isn't uncommon and I guess we were definitely an anomaly in our approach.

@1forward2back , thank you, yes, agree that the overall experience of the the next 5 (or 7) years is important. If that is definitively better, then it certainly makes sense.

Our DD too is in year 7 in a London girls selective and all these thoughts were triggered when she mentioned how hard 11plus prep was for her in year 5 (DD doesn't handle pressure well) while many of her other friends were having just a normal time.

There is no counterfactual obviously for how life would have been in the local (good) comprehensive, but looking at her friends from primary who chose the local school, they seem to be doing absolutely fine, just like DD. Hence the self doubts!

@Redlocks28 , yes, sorry, clumsy wording. Should have said selective/non-selective instead of independent vs state.

No one can answer this though- as no one can see how an alternative choice ended up.

Where is "ended up" anyway - you've focused on universities here but is that the most important thing? I went to a selective school, got amazing results but have anxiety and self esteem issues as an adult. I would rather have had less good results and no mental health issues :) My sibling loved his selective school, on the other hand and has happily sailed through life off the back of it.

Absolutely worth it for my 2 DC. Their primary school was not great in yr 5 and 6 due to teacher shortages / disruptive lessons and so taking group 11+ prep lessons once a week for 6 months seemed a good idea anyway.
Both DC went to grammar and have flown. The school is fabulous and has really developed help develop the DC into happy, independent, young adults. The local state school is failing and is often in the local press because a knife, weapon, drugs have been bought on site and the school shut down. It was the best decision.

@anonuser89 oops forgot to answer the actual question 😂
For us, entering the 11+ was worth it. Our local schools, are struggling (a lot). Our first choice was out of catchment and oversubscribed, so if we didn't enter 11+ and end up with grammar, I would have home educated (because it would have been one of the 3 in our catchment he would have received place at).
I appreciate people will say, a bright child will do well anywhere, but I know my DS would struggle hugely in a place where there are behaviour issues (not saying things don't go wrong at grammar schools-but there is a huge difference between the schools close to us and the grammar).

I really doubted myself as a parent if I'm doing the right thing while subjecting my DS to 11+ ordeal. There were moments of beating myself up and thinking why I'm "torturing" both of us instead of having fun over the weekends and having peaceful family & TV time in the evening. But yes, at the end there is a great reward for DS. I cannot categorise myself as a tiger mum, just nugged DS to complete tutor homework.

@Sunandstars123 , same here, racked by doubts on whether we did the right thing more than a year after the event! All these choices have an opportunity cost - learning ratios and percentages a year ahead of class means giving up TV time or something else more meaningful to DC.

@redskydelight , valid point. No counterfactual in real life, so we will never really know!

I’d say yes and no.

If you can get to a grammar it’s 100% worth it.

I am sure all those who’ve been through the process for grammar and private (our experience being in London specifically) wish there could be a less intense process.

We went in with not much expectation of how DS would do. At best a grammar place, or an excellent indie or at least a better chance of getting into higher sets in a comp.

It’s definitely been great for his learning and maturity in readiness for secondary. I do think, and see in a friend of his, that it’s not good for everyone. We also only applied to 3 indies and 1 grammar. I don’t know how everyone who did more than that managed to keep it together!

We did six weeks of 11 plus prep when DD2 suddenly decided she might try for the local super selective (had registered her just in case but it hadn't really been on our radar much and she didn't see it until very late in the day).

She passed, but not highly enough - made it to sixth on the waiting list. Instead, she joined the same comp as her older sister and is flying.

Pretty confident she'll end up at exactly the same universities as she would have done at the grammar- maybe she'd have had less disruption in some non-set lessons but a longer commute. And fewer local friends as well as a narrower curriculum. With the recent train strikes I've been incredibly grateful she can walk to school.

Doubt she's any less clever than those at the grammar - many of whom came from prep schools and had done loads of prep themselves. Because it's not a grammar area hers is a proper comp with some exceptionally clever children and many talented in other ways too.

So do I regret trying? Sometimes I think it was a waste of time - though it was only six weeks of about twenty minutes a day...and the cost of couple of bond books. I think it changed her self perception and she loves logic puzzles anyway, so not a big loss.

Her sister, who didn't even try for the grammar, is being encouraged to apply for Oxbridge... a total lottery, but just indicates they can achieve similar things from comprehensives too.

Totally worth it for my DS ... but I wouldn't be saying that if he hadn't got in anywhere. We only started in the September of Y6 but did two past papers a day with me, one morning and one evening, until the exams which in retrospect was brutal but it worked for us.

A bright, interested and encouraged child will do well whatever the school. Some kids pass the 11 plus, go to grammar school based on that and struggle terribly.

My DD is now in Y11 and I am confident that it would not have been worth it for her to go to a grammar or private school instead of the excellent comprehensive she attends. I considered private for her (mainly because I had been privately educated and many of her friends were applying) and she got a place at Putney High in London which was the only one she applied to. She also had a place at Tiffin Girls (a grammar) but we turned it down because both she and I felt the co-ed comprehensive would give her a much more rounded education. She has had an amazing five years - she's very sporty and has represented the school at athletics, netball, cricket, football, basketball, cross-country etc. She's on course for all 8s and 9s at GCSEs across a broad range of subjects, She has great friends - boys and girls - whose academic targets vary from 5/6s to 8s/9s. Not paying fees has meant I can work 0.8FTE (roughly 4 days/week) so I can be around for her much more than if I need to work full-time. I appreciate there is no counter-factual and she might have had an even more fabulous time at a selective school but I struggle to see how.

^ indeed 👏🏻

Completely depends on your dc. My eldest is extremely intelligent, self driven and competitive. The schools around here are diabolical apart from the few academically selective. When I offered to take them to a learning centre with tutors for the 11 plus they jumped at the chance. They got somewhere in the top 13 of 950 kids in our second choice school, so that was definitely worth it. I think their sibling is almost as intelligent, but they had absolutely no desire to sit in a learning centre for 4 hours a week, and wasn’t going to voluntarily study and take any exams that weren’t necessary, which was fine. We’ve gone down a different path for them. Basically they have to want to do it 🤷🏼‍♀️

No, it wasn't. We went for London independents 11+ this year, and we're in a position where we have a bright DD with no offers.

After nearly two years of lockdowns, which hit her hard, we decided she needed a bit of normal childhood. So we didn't do any intensive 11+ prep. I don't know if this was a mistake. I think we'd have lost out either way.

The whole process is mad, though, isn't it!? It's entirely out of control. On one of the other threads there are DCs with eight offers. There was someone else who went for six schools and got no interviews. The entrance process is presented as a simple ritual to find the best fit for your child, and it's evolved into this bizarre tutoring-industrial-complex tragedy of the commons.

My personal experience is yes, my son is thriving academically and in self confidence. When he was at primary school he was quiet and quite anxious at some points underachieving. He was a target with the "lads" and would be at comp school with them, so we studied hard and he passed easily. Seeing how happy he is and the love he has for learning without disruption. The best decision we made, especially being a low income family and area, I feel his opportunities have widen and less chance of him falling into the wrong crowd like I did.

For me personally - no. I ended up in a single sex grammar school where bullying was rife and my experience was awful. I had no local friends either as a consequence of going to the "posh" school.

For my children, its had a really positive result. They passed it without any goal in mind at the time, but have since been accepted on a scholarship to a school they adore.

I know of someone who drilled their children to pass the 11+ so they could be put in a grammar school. Their kids hated the pressure of all the preparation. One passed, one failed. The one who failed, feels really awful and has been in tears loads ever since. The one who passed is still in the local comprehensive because their parent is now focusing more on getting a posh house than their children.

@GrassGrows , I couldn't have put it better. tutoring-industrial-complex is what it has become, especially in London.

Saw the SW London private and grammar thread part VI, probably soon there's going to be a part VII, and was thinking why do we grown ups willingly take part in this insanity... I have done it myself dragging DD through it 😫Yes, she is now in a school we applied to, but her friends who didn't participate in this ritual are doing absolutely fine too as far as I can tell.

We used diy approach for our dd by buying 11+ books to practise at home with no tutoring or any pressure. Most of her friends did few years of tutions with no better outcome. Some moved near to grammar schools so they get an advantage. I always wanted her to enjoy studies rather than feel pressurised. My dd got place in most private schools including CLSG as interviewing might have showed them her self motivation rather than tutored approach. We signed her up for selective comprehensive rather than grammer so focus is more on all round approach rather than academics only. She got in to our top choice selective school and florushing well academically while participating in so many extracurricular clubs. So, For us our journey to 11+ was easy and worth it.

@Tidsleytiddy

A bright, interested and encouraged child will do well whatever the school.

Nope, utter crap. I was an A* pupil at primary school. My parents believed the crap spouted in the 70s about "everyone" getting a grammar education when grammars were converted to comps. I went to our local "comp" which had just converted from being a grammar 2 years previously. It was an absolute shit-hole. Year by year, it got worse as the "grammar" upper years left and each years' intake was comp. It was OK for the first year, as years 4 and over were "grammar". Each year, I lost a grade, mostly due to horrendous bullying which the teachers ignored and were incapable of dealing with (many were ex-grammar teachers who weren't used to "problem" pupils). I left without a single qualification having failed all my O levels! It wasn't just verbal bullying, it was also physical (fag burns on arms and neck), theft and vandalism of my property (I once found my locker in the middle of the playing fields!). Teachers just told me to "toughen up"! I ended up hiding at lunches and breaks to avoid the bullies. Then I started bunking off to avoid the lessons where the teachers forced me to sit with (and be in groups with) my bullies, despite them knowing who they were! My "real" education started when I left that shit-hole. I got a low paid menial job and did my O and A levels from a combination of college evening classes and self-study, all of which I passed first time with good grades. So, being bright, interested and encouraged is nowhere near enough to do well if you're stuck in a shit hole comp!

Really worth it because it showed the gaps in teaching due to different teachers in two years teaching class and swapping mid week due to staff issues plus Covid homeschooling time. We discover primary School didn’t want to correct creative writing spelling beyond 3 words so DC kept spelling it wrong. The instructions on class work was so vague, if you like to do more than 5 maths questions blah blah 8 sentences long….DC thought nope then missed out on the critical work needed. Some topics tests had more facts than taught because kids must click on link given at the end as ‘if this is interesting and under optional heading’ and read more. The list goes on and on and the 11+ was great in the books bought to try and understand and in giving clear instructions. Some grammar schools had past papers and marking scheme for free downloads. This helped firm the English and Maths foundation for secondary schools KS3.