Any current Tiffin's Girls' parents here?

[Ernern]

Hi - I wonder if there are any current Tiffin's Girls parents here and have any experience to share about the teaching quality, learning atmosphere and clubs/after school activities are like. My daughter has an Year 7 offer from LEH & G&L and we like both schools. However if she secures an offer from Tiffin, it'll be a tough call. We live around Richmond area so distance-wise they are all similar.

Just wanna gather my thoughts earlier as 1 March is approaching fast.

Thanks in advance.

Following and shamelessly bumping :)

😆

Same here but choice will be Tiffins, LU or SPGS...

@Ernern I heard from 2-3 local parents who's dd's go to Tiffin. GIrls could be from different sets.

The feedback I got from 2 (Y9 and Y10) of them was 1) there is healthy academic pressure which can be managed if you're disciplined 2) no concerns with pastoral care 3) good friendship groups. Overall they are very happy and their daughters seem fine. Managing independently and thriving.

Feedback from the third OP was that the classes are fast paced, academic pressure is high and dd has to put in a quite a few hours to keep up. She does not get enough time for herself. They don't find the pressure healthy. They will also be needing a tutor where they cannot help (languages).

OP mentioned, you can ask teachers for help, but they will not proactively be trying to spot gaps in knowledge. (caveat: I don't think it would be fair to generalize that statement and we should remember a parents POV can be incomplete as they're dependant on what a teenage DD is choosing to pass on)

But I do wonder if the experience of the 3rd OP and DD is for a child in the middle/bottom set and would she face the same stress at a selective independent as well. Just one of the evils of entering a highly academic environment :(
Or would the selective independents do a better job of managing the stress levels?

@WimMum2015 Thanks for keeping the thread going.
Selective schools would manage the gaps and bottom sets better as their teacher/student ratio is a lot refined. That's what I am worried about though. My daughter isn't very self-motivated and does require some close monitoring (now it's primarily by me).

@Ernern what are the class sizes at LEH, G&L and the likes?
Spoke to another OP who had wholly positive things to say. In line with the first two OP.
Their DD and TGS recognized that her time management has been an issue. A teacher actually sits with her once a week to help her plan her time.
Their DD is not in the top set but feels supported as there are extra sessions during lunch and after school for those who are lagging. Her DD may need an English tutor for GCSE - but she did emphasize that the school English teacher is great, no complaints at all - it's just her DD's weak point.

@WimMum2015 Thanks for the sharing. Tiffin surely has a way to support all students as their results explain it all. Wonder if they would expel any underperforming students in-between??

I also notice that Tiffin has stepped up their club/activities offering so I would be tempted to take the offer if my daughter has it. Surely private schools offer a lot more opportunities such as field trips and inter-school tournaments/exchanges.

@WimMum2015 what are your other options?

Speaking from experience, if we had our time again we would not have sent our daughter there. Some very bright girls but then others that are heavily tutored which can only help them to a point. If you think your daughter might need support to just keep up e.g. SEN, I would avoid. They will get little or no support at TGS and their self esteem and mental health will be impacted particularly in exam Years 11/13 when pressure mounts up. Mental health support is poor and they’re a lot of sad girls self harming.

Have you read the Good Schools Guide entry on Tiffin Girls? It is most illuminating as to the amount of tutoring going on

Another point of view: completely setting aside the atmosphere/class size/pressure issues, what could you as a family do with the 16 grand or so of fees that you WON’t have to pay if your DD goes to Tiffin, is that factor in the mix as well?

Obviously if you have a pretty robust income/savings/independent wealth you may not feel that is relevent , and of course DD’s wellbeing is priceless, but the considerable money saved from fees could potentially be used in ways that help wellbeing too….

Totally get the other poster’s point that TGS by definition is a superselecting environment and definitely will not suit every personality: yoh know your DD best

Thanks @wellbeing74 my daughter is not SEN - she just needs constant pressure to push her to do something. It's only under pressure she'd perform well.
I presume parents and girls must be very mindful of what they are signing up for, especially if the decision is to go to a super selective grammar like Tiffin.
I also suspect the pressure is equally massive at HBS.

Needing pressure to perform, then performing well, is a classic symptom of ADHD OP.

I had a DC with ADHD in a similarly super selective state (Latymer in NE London) and I wouldn't do it again. Problems with focus were ignored/glossed over until GCSEs and then he was suddenly faced with the possibility of getting kicked out after GCSEs if he didn't manage to get the required number of 7s. It had an enormous impact on his mental health and self esteem just at the point that he needed to be calm and happy in order to focus. The school was awful in every regard.

On a separate note, the teaching was middling, and their results were not related to its quality: very smart cohort in = very smart cohort out, with the added bonus of having chucked away any underperforming kids at Year 11 and imported another lot of guaranteed performers to bump up their A-level results. Grim.

All very useful feedback & insights. We came from Asia, it's a very intense and competitive environment there - 2-3 quizzes each week, 5-6 pieces of homework each day and 3 big exams each year even at the age of 7. All children there perform extremely well under such pressure (except a few needing a lot of parents' supervision, not school's) so I doubt if everyone is ADHD there.

Would private schools be different? Would private school exert less pressure coz the better staff/student ratio??

no I haven't but am going to now. So glad to gather the support here.

@Ernern please do let me know what you gather from good school guide. The few parents I spoke to have not felt that the tutoring requirement is that common (girls in Y9 and Y10).
Spoke to an OP with Y7 twins - at a indie (selective but not "highly") I have heard the HW pressure is high(ish) at Tiffin. Y7 2nd term, about 1-2 hours everyday. But I'm not sure if that is the same for highly selective pvt schools.

DD is at St Paul's Girls' and she did not even have half an hour of homework per day in Y7 although I think about an hour was usually timetabled. They only set tasks if there was genuinely something useful to do so it was usually much less than the amount we had expected.

She also received an offer from Tiffin Girls' but we decided against it. There were a number of reasons but the one that loomed largest was that the experience of SATs made me feel very strongly that I did not want her to be a data point demonstrating expected progress for the rest of her school career.

I got a DD at TGS Y7, had similar dilemma last year. I'd say it largely depends on your DD's personality and academic ability. That is why you hear different opinions. To me the academic pressure is minimal as my DD manages well. The school did emphasis to parents that daily HW expectation is 1 hour max. If any girls spend more than that constantly, parents must tell school so that they can intervene, assume it means help them. Extra curricular wise the music department is excellent, again because we have experience. DD is not confident on extra curricular stuff nor social side, feel grammar school fitting her better as there are similar girls, still rare but at least a few. And in fact based on 11+ plus experience, I feel super selective independent school may not choose top academic students, for that I mean really top. Instead they need candidates are more experienced and matured, obviously still academic though.

DD(15)'s selective school hosts a psychologist who often runs sessions about tackling teen issues. We joked about attending the 'procrastination' talk, but the Q&A was enlightening.

In particular the psychologist suggested that most of the "lots of homework" kids tend to be perfectionists. They worry so much about getting a bad score that they agonise about finishing an assignment and get upset if they get what they consider to be a mediocre mark.

OP can probably tell whether her daughter falls into the "let's get this done as I want to go out" versus the "I am going to rewrite this" camp.

Thanks @Createuser - you are absolutely right. It does depend mostly on the child's personality and ability. Undoubtedly Tiffin will give her the academic stimulus. But you do feel there is a good balance of Music, Sports, Art etc.? Or does it ever feel like she doesn't get enough time for herself, or to enjoy and achieve in other aspects besides just academics?

@BonjourCrisette Wish I could edit my statement as it has created the wrong impression. There is a big difference between 1 hour and 2 hours of daily HW.
The OP spoke to me in "general" terms - just trying to emphasize the daily HW vs HW 3 times a week from the independent school. And I did not think much before reposting (note to self). It should not be more than an hours HW.

@Ernern while I have heard scary rumours of leaving if grades are low, noone every actually knew someone who had experienced it. So it may not actually be true in the recent years. Atleast all the parents I spoke to felt it was not the case.

@WinterDeWinter Your analysis is very accurate and consistent with what we saw and heard about at Tiffin Girls.

@WimMum2015 - "Their DD and TGS recognized that her time management has been an issue. A teacher actually sits with her once a week to help her plan her time." This is SEN support. Of the few comments from Year 9/10 parents you reference, there is already a number needing tutors which we would find concerning. See the SchoolParrot website for other student reviews.

For highly intelligent girls, challenges with time management, self-monitoring, and organization are Executive Functioning difficulties that are symptoms of ADHD/Autism/Twice Exceptional/2e. Girls mask and get diagnosed much later than boys. See Chris Packham's powerful documentary on BBC 2/iPlayer Inside our Autistic Minds where it was quoted that "highly intelligent autistic women are eight times more likely to die by suicide than nonautistic women.

Neurodiversity is important and should not be overlooked. To get a well-rounded view of any school, you need to look at the mental health and SEN provision available (should your daughter ever need to use it), not just the grades/sets and clubs.

Due to waiting times at CAMHS/private medical professionals, costs, and cuts in education and local authority funding, girls may not get a timely formal diagnosis, and therefore the appropriate support EHCP/IEP from teachers at school/during exams.

Depending on the A-Level route a Tiffin Girls' student takes they will need Grades 8/9s in certain STEM subjects at GCSEs to progress to the 6th form. We know of students that left pre and post-GCSEs.

I have a daughter at TGS (year 12) and she is definitely in the perfectionist camp. It’s hard to say if it would be different elsewhere, or if the school makes it worse, as it’s always been her nature. No tutoring - and I’m only aware of a couple of her classmates being tutored, but maybe it’s not broadcast. No one has left her class, and I’m not aware of anyone forced out at 6th form although they do have minimum grades (as do many schools) for A level. School has been supportive when we have raised issues, and her teachers have been great on the whole. She’s always been close to top of the top sets and a very keen learner (despite getting in from the WL). I think she might have been happier / more carefree elsewhere, but may have encountered other issues. Music and drama seem good. Clubs in y7 seemed a bit of a shambles so she gave up on them. Contrary to the often bandied about cliches (mostly by non parents) it doesn’t seem to be a hotbed of EDs or self-harming. I do think if you were struggling in a lot of subjects, the school experience might be quite miserable. But my daughters experience has been positive on the whole - she has lovely, interesting, supportive friends from diverse backgrounds and is reaching her academic potential. She wants to stay for 6th form despite us being very supportive of a move. I don’t remember much homework at all in year 7 but I may be wrong. She has never done as much as 2 hours a night. That sound excessive to me.

Glad to hear the two hours a night thing isn't right, that sounded awful! I have a perfectionist too (but she's been like that from well before secondary school so I am pretty sure her school isn't why). I suspect lots of these very selective schools suffer from a lot of hearsay and nonsense. It is certainly the case with DD's school which is similarly selective.

And in fact based on 11+ plus experience, I feel super selective independent school may not choose top academic students, for that I mean really top. Instead they need candidates are more experienced and matured, obviously still academic though.

What does this mean @Createuser? I think the overlap between Tiffin girls and other very selective SW London schools is very high. Of the girls DD knows at SPGS, every single one who applied got a place. I would imagine it works similarly the other way round. They are all very clever girls. By the way, I think I must have come across you under another username. Your posting style is very familiar!

I don’t think that a child who needs support with time management at secondary school necessarily has a SEN or is on the autistic spectrum. There are many children for whom the Tiffins - type environment and the step up in terms of number of subjects and homework is a lot to take in. Whilst I take on board the concern about children (especially girls) being able to mask, I would encourage others to note this but not be worried if their children need support organizing themselves! This can come from many different reasons!

Any difficulties shouldn’t be overlooked but jumping to conclusions is also quite scary and invalidating…..

@Thingshavechanged @Createuser Many thank you for your inputs as a TGS parent.

Is there a good balance of Music, Sports, Art during the week?
I understand HW is within limits and manageable - but does it ever feel like she doesn't get enough time for herself, or to enjoy and achieve in other aspects besides just academics?
@Thingshavechanged you mentioned she may have been happier/carefree elsewhere - is this in comparison to peers at academic independent schools?