State or _*poss* free place at private

[scarecrow22]

My DD is in y7 of what we so far think is a fantastic state school, both the teachers and pastoral care.

My DS presumed he will follow her, and I think he'd be well suited to the school.

However I know we would qualify for a 100% bursary for a very very good private school nearby. DS (y5) is vg at maths but average at English so would need a bit of help. However he is a quick learner and has a lot of knowledge of and understanding of other areas of life, from a love of bonfires and camping to a fascination with infinity, birds and problem solving. I keep trying to suppress and cast off the niggling idea that I want him to try because from the boys I k ow there the school turns out such beautifully mannered young men with a love of learning. But I can't shake it off. Partly because his character is so well suited.

Other factors to consider are that his DS might be jealous and feel we think more of him.

What do you think. Please don't be aggressive about my interest in private education. I guess I never dreamed we'd give it a thought, so I've not resolved it in my head.

Thank you.

I would say give it a go if that is what he wants. But do get him to do the 11+ mocks to see how he does. The school will either have a written exam, online or both. You could trial a 5 day free trial with Atom to see how he scores with the mocks. If he gets above 120 that is good. They say to aim above 120 for the competitive schools. You could even ask Atom what score he needs for the school to get a better idea. Just make sure you research 11+ so you are prepared. I feel like a lot of parents from state schools arent aware of how competitive it can be. My dc are both state schooled and I see that the state school dc are bright, but just not prepared for the 11+, so the ones that try do not pass the first round.

It sounds like you like the idea of it, rather than your DS actually expressing any sort of interest?

I wouldn't. The reality might not match your expectations, you'll be creating inequality between your children. I'd also worry how "free" "free" really was. If you earn little enough to qualify for a full bursary then I assume you don't have any money to spend on extras.

Hi, I don't know much about private schools. But being offered a 100% bursery for entry into year 6.... Does this continue throughout his entire secondary schooling or is it reassessed often/yearly?
If it's reassessed and your situation changes can you afford to top up or pay the fees?
Will there be a space available at your DD school should you need to take him out of the private school? Or is it usually oversubscribed and a long waiting list.

I don't see any harm in your son being tutored and doing tests if he's happy to do so.

I see it's a win win situation if you are happy with the "fall back" state school if he doesn't pass exams and get into the private school.

@scarecrow22 How do you know that you would qualify for a bursary? I have some experience of independent schools (everyone in my family and husband's family have been through the independent system, as have our five DC). My experience is that bursaries are generally only offered if there is a very specific reason that they want the child to go to that particular school. Passing the entrance exam doesn't remotely guarantee that they will offer you a bursary, however low your income might be. Bursaries are normally used to top up scholarships for children who are particularly good at something (Art, Drama, Music, Sport), where the scholarships themselves are only worth 5% of the fees. Have you spoken to the actual school about how to go about applying for financial assistance?

I think it can be tricky if you only have two children, and one is sent to an independent school and the other isn't. Especially if the boy is sent, rather than the girl. I am sure you don't mean it that way, but there would be raised eyebrows in some quarters that you might appear to be putting the boy's education ahead of his sister's. It's easier if you have several children and only one of them goes down the independent route as a result of a scholarship/bursary. Then they are the 'outlier', and the others are the norm.

BTW, bursaries are reassessed, mostly annually.

I wouldn’t. If you have just one child, it’s worth to have a go but you have two. It makes inequality between your children and may impact their relationship for a long time.

Bursaries are normally used to top up scholarships for children who are particularly good at something (Art, Drama, Music, Sport), where the scholarships themselves are only worth 5% of the fees.

To qualify for a 100% bursary at one school I know, you can't have a household income above 35K , but the sliding scale of bursary help doesn't cut off till 100K. ( This is in London).

So therefore a household on 95K, a home with a mortgage and a couple of kids would qualify as a 'top up' as you say, of 5% or so, but OP is talking about 100% bursary, complete different case to your example.

Unless you know the parents well, its impossible to know who has been awarded a 100% bursary, yet I know many parents who tell me about their scholarship and bursary combo smugly, never had one gloat being so financially disadvantaged they qualify for 100% help.

Agree that no school is going to hand 100% bursary to a pupil who doesn't shine in entrance and interview, but the type of bursary top ups you're talking about are for middle class households who wouldn't qualify in financial terms for a 100% bursary anyway.

OP, I do know a family who have this set up but in reverse, DD goes to highly rated private school on full bursary, son goes local state, no problems at all as the girl is so bright and geeky.

I think you should have a sit down with your DD , then your DS and decide.

Just because you would qualify for a full bursary, doesn't mean you will get one. Most schools have more applications for bursaries than they can provide so they generally offer them either to the pupils who will bring the most to a school (sport of music) or to those who have top marks in the entrance exam. ALternatively they spread the pot around so say offer 5 pupils 80% bursaries rather than 4 at 100%. would you need 100% in order to attend the school?

WHilst I agree you have nothing to lose, it is up to you to manage both your own and your DS's expectations over the likelyhood of getting a 100% bursary - especially if as you say he is behind in english.

100% bursary is pretty rare. Did you enter your daughter for a similar opportunity? I know siblings who have gone down different routes at 11, but both had the opportunity to sit the entrance exam - one didn’t get a place. How would you explain to her why she didn’t get a similar chance and how might you level the playing field for her later on?

@tryandcountsheep I think you misunderstood my post - I was referring to scholarships being worth 5% of the full fee, not 5% bursaries!

I think you might be setting your DD up for resentment if they have such an unequal education.

As others have said, I think you need to confirm the bursary situation first? Have you been told you would qualify by the school because they are trying to recruit your son, or have you assumed based on what other parents have told you?

Just a few "what if" scenarios to think about:

1. What if you got the bursary for Y7, but the school finances changed and it was withdrawn later on?

2. What if your income changed and you no longer qualified later on?

3. What if something changed which meant you had to move your son during an exam year?

Have you also looked at things like costs of uniform, transport, lunches + extras?

@UsernameOfMine @Postapocalypticcowgirl I would be entering DS for y7 - so he would do 11+ next school year.

I understood @millionsofproducts perfectly, and I agree most bursaries are small and awarded often with non-means tested scholarships ( because scholarship excellence are the exact types the school would be happy to help if household couldn't afford the fees.) My DC are all at private school, and family on both sides of DC and I know this happens a lot.

I was just saying 100% bursary qualification is usually a very low bar (income and asset wise) that most even thinking of private education are nowhere near.

That was my point.

Here in London, I know so many people on 6 figures who consider themselves 'poor' and write to bursars, because they've heard so and so got a 'top up' bursary with a scholarship and got a nice chunk off their fees. Households on 40K are on a London scale , in my mind, dis-advantaged living in the capital, but this family would still earn too much for the school's 35K bar for 100% bursary.

@millionsofproducts @UsernameOfMine @tryandcountsheep @Hersetta427 @LadyLapsang Re bursary/scholarship situation, I am on ESA and DH on a modest education sector salary. I spoke to the school a year or two ago and was told we "easily" qualified for a 100% bursary. I totally understand that DS would have to get in first. Maybe he'd also have to demonstrate a special skill (infinity/maths conundrums or art, would be the obvious options, but I would not expect him to demonstrate and extraordinary talent...)

My post is more about the benefits of the private school over a good state school, and weighing that against my DD's situation.

For those that asked I didn't consider this for DD, partly because originally the approach to the all boys private school was a bit of a whim (which then began to become serious), and partly because DD has had other problems at school which would have made a pressurised or single sex school out of the question. And I knew she wouldn't want to do or pass the 11+. And, as I said, I only ever imagined our children would be state schooled.

One more from me, the infinity/maths conundrums thing is a joke. No way you'd know that given you don't know me.

No one here can say whether the specific private school you're interested in is better/worse than the specific state school concerned.
You say it's very, very good - what do you mean by that?
Also if it's that good presumably the entrance exams are probably pretty tough. Are you thinking about tutoring?
I agree, to get a 100% bursary, your DS would need to do extremely well in the exams/interview.

A lot has changed in the last couple of years and schools don't have money to give out 100% bursaries 'easily'. If you have a great state option I think you'd be bonkers to go down this route given the fact you have another child who didn't even get a chance to try this. I'd be pretty pissed off at you if you were my mum. why do mums keep proving Freud right.

I would urge caution. Treating siblings radically differently can be dangerous in my experience. I have relatives who have 3 children. 2 went on scholarships to very prestigous boarding schools, the other went to the local, not particularly good, comp and wasn't even put in for any entrance tests. They actually all got broadly similar exam results, went to reasonably well respected Universities and are doing ok in their careers as adults but the one who went to the local school has a terrible relationship with the parents even now, and things aren't great between the siblings either.
It's not the only reason of course, families are complex things, but you don't need to be a psychologist to be able to see that the sense of being deemed "lesser" has had a negative impact on the one who was sent to the state school.
Not that I am saying that would happen to everyone, but having observed this family was enough to put me off doing the same thing when my children reached that stage.

Apply.

But don't get your hopes up. There could be 100+ other DCs up for that one 100% nursery.

Just a word of caution, the extras bill can be horrific at private schools, the bursaries can change and most demand you show your income and assets annually, it's not guaranteed for the entirety of their education.

Unfortunately very few girls schools have decent scholarships and bursaries we found, lots more options for boys so it may not be possible for your dd anyway

I wouldn’t pursue it for one and not the other, it seems like a recipe for future resentment.

I have two friends whose parents paid for private education for their sons and not their daughters.

While I'm sure you're not prioritising your son's education over your daughter's because you're massively sexist like my friends' parents are, the end result is the same. Huge resentment and feeling that male children are more prized and worthy of investment than female children.

I've got one at state and one at private. DS at state school knows it's the best school for him and he knows the private school that his sister is at wouldn't be be as good for him. He also knows the reasons why the private school was the best option for his sister. No resentment. He's very bright and she struggles academically and copes better with the smaller class sizes. He gets it.

Also apart from an optional ski trip we've not paid a penny more that the published school fees. ( we've paid for school ski trips for DS too so all is fair)

The private school uniform was cheaper than the state school uniform ( private blazer was £40 whereas my DS's state school blazer was £80. The private school meals work out cheaper than the state school canteen too.