Children at private and grammar schools criticising comprehensive schools

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My DD attends the local 'good' comprehensive school, which has a great reputation and gets good results, but is a big, diverse and scruffy school. She's now in year 8, and over the past 2-3 years a few of her friends have gone the grammar and private school route.

DD knows there are many reasons why people opt for different schools, and that it's not her place to pass comment on other people's school choices, but she seems to be regularly on the receiving end of critical and nasty comments about the school she goes to e.g 'all the kids take drugs' / 'are badly behaved' / 'the teaching is terrible' (they don't, and it's not!) and even 'my parents wouldn't send me there over their dead bodies'.

DD is happy at school and is doing well academically, but at times these comments have really upset her, and on one occasion she tearfully asked me why we'd chosen to send her to such a bad school. A couple of times these comments were made in front of the parents (on lifts home from outings at the weekends), and they said nothing. 😟

I've explained to DD that her friends are likely just expressing adults' views, and to try not to take it personally, but I find it depressing that DDs friends can't see how upsetting these comments might be for DD. Speaking to some of my other friends, their children at local comps have had similar experiences.

I wonder if this is the beginning of a lifelong 'them and us' attitude for these quite privileged kids. Maybe it happens the other way around too ('why are your parents paying for private school when the local school is so good?') but it feels like even if it does, the connotations are different.

Is this all to be expected, and a case of DD just needing to 'toughen' up to the real world? Perhaps naively, I expected a bit better of 12 and 13-year-olds 🙄

Some good advice here -thanks.

DD finds it very hard to address it head-on / call it out, as she worries she will upset them 🤔I'm going to keep reminding her that this is the best way to respond to it though. I would definitely challenge it if I overheard it.

She does have a wider group of friends from school, and outside school activities and those relationships are more straightforward so, yes, maybe time to move on from some of these other friends.

I don’t understand why people come on threads and say ‘my child wouldn’t say that kind of thing’. How on Earth do you know? I don’t have a problem with the grammar school system but it’s a bit pointless to kid yourself that your kids won’t pick up on the idea that grammar and private schools are ‘better’ than comprehensives. Telling them otherwise won’t negate them picking up that message. Why would the indies and grammars exist otherwise?

Sadly I think this is a long standing problem. My experience is that some parents from private schools need to justify the fees and often do it by demeaning the students at state schools....obviously, its not all...but it happened a lot in my childhood and I can see it still happening now. It's also a status symbol that some like to flaunt.

Of course, I'm sure it works the other way with state school parents justifying their choice but I really have seen it more the other way.

OP, tell her to ignore, find new friends and do whatever you must to protect her confidence.

Could you help her find some appropriate responses? Pointing out the success of her state school, and perhaps raising queries about (say) the quality of teaching in the private sector? "My parents were a bit worried about xxx, decided it was safer in the state sector..." At one private school I worked at, the staffroom joke was that "they think they buy the brains with the blazers!"

Jackiebrambles - fair enough. Hope they manage to stay friends.

I agree. A bit of ribbing is normal but one of our kids chose the grammar and another chose not to sit the grammar as he preferred the comprehensive. They love being in different schools to each other after being in a very small rural primary school. They do rib each other both saying their school is better but it’s all good humoured and the kids from the same primary school mix and remain friends on the same school bus going to both schools.

I think there's a big difference between thinking private schools are better (which I obviously do in some ways or I'm an idiot for paying the money) and
saying "all the kids take drugs' / 'are badly behaved' / 'the teaching is terrible' and even 'my parents wouldn't send me there over their dead bodies' which was what the OP said.

I - personally -think private schools are better for mental health and well being, class sizes are smaller, (average about 7 per class) opportunities and extra curricular activities are greater and they have greater resources. I don't think they necessarily give better academic results, (though they can with the smaller class sizes and resources) but that's not why my kids are going. They're going so they have as happy a school time as possible.

Some of their friends from state school are now being home schooled or have mental health issues because of the problems they experienced during and after lockdown. My youngest who was quiet was being ignored in a class of over 30. They're now flourishing and loving every minute of school.

Kent is an odd place (and I say that as someone who grew up there). Around 25% go to grammar, because Kent essentially ignored the guidance to go comprehensive in the 60s (it was only ever guidance). Plus parts of Kent are very affluent and therefore the % at private schools is more like London levels in some areas.

So you have got over a third of DC at grammar or private, way way higher than other parts of the country. Plus KCC are notoriously shit at SEN so anyone with SEN DC and money has considered private at some point I'm sure. There's a private secondary near Tonbridge with about 1/3 SEN on roll.

So it is massively divisive.

We sent our DC to a private prep (we had our reasons) and she will most likely go to a state comprehensive for various reasons, two being the SEN support is better and the curriculum more suitable.

We have had the odd rude or joshing (but actually verging on rude) comments from other mums about our decisions. One had paid pretty much the same amount on a nanny... But DD knows as a teacher I see these things from the inside I think. Schools are schools are schools! Good bad and indifferent exist in both sectors.

I think this is a valuable lesson in assertiveness for your DD. I like the suggestion to ask questions.

Our local grammar tell its kids they are the best of the best when in reality they are just the ones who sat the test and often hothoused.

I went to an all girls grammar in the 70s. Bloody awful. Hate single sec schools. My dss and dds thrived in a co Ed environment.

The difference in maturity snd sense is huge compared to my friends kids who went single sexes. The girls are desperate for boys attention snd the boys are (as my dds say) rapey! The girls schools have a serious issue with eating disorders too.

The grammar school I went to decades ago was horrible. I was bullied constantly and didn't do well at GCSE.

When the school finally had to report it's results, they were much worse than the local comprehensive. I really loathed the place and never wanted to be there.

I live in SW London and have witnessed similar insensitive and disparaging comments. (No doubt these children are just parroting the parents). Our grammar system is different to Kent's but also very divisive. My eldest son is in Y6 and some of his school mates aiming at the highest-performing of our local grammars denigrate not only comp schools but also the other grammars - haha!' I'm hoping that only a small minority of grammar/indie kids have such a misplaced superiority complex. But if my son gets into a grammar, I will monitor that his confidence doesn't turn into arrogance.

To an extent, it is sadly human nature to create 'them and us' and look down on other groups. In the context of schools, we parents have a key part to play in ensuring that our children understand differences and privilege.

Thanks for posting this - very interesting thread.

I know quite a few people male and female, from both grammar and private schools. Not one of them have ended up in a "fancy" job - they are on completely fine, completely "normal" jobs, after tens of thousands of pounds spent on their education - one is a tree surgeon. One is a supermarket manager. One is an NHS administrator. One works in health and safety for a large foreign company. One is a teacher. One runs his own restaurant. And the last one is a waiter.

Our local grammar school recently expelled a whole group of boys who were doing coke during school time.

I also know many State school educated kids who have gone on to also run successfully their own businesses (funeral director, online teacher business owner, sports coach etc), as well as others who have gone on to become a pilot, a chief director, a senior police officer etc. I really wouldn't hold anything to a private education.

Your child has so much potential. School education amounts to only so much - your daughter has so much going for her, private education can honestly mean nothing.

Grammar schools are state schools - at least the ones the OP's talking about. There are some independents that kept 'grammar' in the name post 1960s education changes.

My DH and I both went to private schools and he in particular struggles to aim for contentment rather than purely attainment. That’s us of course the way he was parented as well as his schooling. I loved my school and we would have considered private school if our local state schools weren’t excellent. I don’t really agree with my own attitude there though as people thinking like I do hinders the schools being improved. I also don’t ageee with the grammar school system but didn’t let that stop me from letting our eldest who wanted to go there go either.

Oh I see. We used to have these back in the 60s (and probably beyond) however they were scrapped a long time ago. They were called academies I believe.

Thanks for the explanation.

YouJust

Totally our experience.

We could have afforded private but the local high schools were fantastic. We were lucky I know. In our friendship group about half the kids went private/grammar. Dh and I both grammar school kids and hated it.

Our kids has better A level results than our friends who laid thousands of pounds to school their kids. Mine have better careers too and arw far more resilient.

I mean if you taking Eton or Cheltenham ladies maybe yea there's an advantage but your big standard private school it's a joke.

We have a similar situation at moment. My primary school age child's best friend has moved to the most expensive school in the county.
We have maintained the friendship BUT I was driving friend home and actually overhead them telling my chil how their school was so much better and how their parents want the best for them. My poor child asked why we didn't want the best for them also.

I'm devistated we can't afford 15k a year for private school. My child is by no means deprived and is excelling at school. But at age 7 has realised that other children ger a better education because they have more money.
I literally don't know what to do and we are debating is re mortgaging the house is appropriate.
Honestly we live in a very good school area but God the guilt.

“DD finds it very hard to address it head-on / call it out, as she worries she will upset them 🤔I'm going to keep reminding her that this is the best way to respond to it though”

Is it though?
I’d be teaching my daughter that, “you can’t argue with stupid” and a good eye roll. As long as she knows the truth (which sadly includes that in many ways private schools are better) it’s not her job to educate kids who are parroting their parents. I’d teach her to recognise that, with a good mix of pity for their immature critical thinking and a dose of healthy disdain.

One year I went on an activity holiday with my teen, and of 16 kids she was the only state school (expensive holiday, hence the high %). She had a whale of a time regaling them all with tales on knife crime exclusion from her form in the first week. Which was true as it happens, but not representative of a typical week! They all had a fabulous time together. They said that she was more street smart than them. She said they played lacrosse better. All good.

First and foremost - work on your own child’s confidence.

Those children are bad mannered and not brought up well. I would be furious if I heard DS say anything like that about peoples choices. DS passed the 11+ but chose to go to a comprehensive with a grammar stream instead. The number of people that feel free to comment on that is quite astonishing.

I agree it's a thing though. The 2 kids of someone I know regularly make comments about how clever they are/their grammar school education.

@Testina
That is bang on the right approach.
DD was taken aback when arriving at Durham to discover the majority of her corridor were privately educated. But pleasantly surprised at her new neighbours' reactions to seeing her exam results. They in turn wore black tie attire with greater aplomb than her (initially at least!).

You can't always change people. But you can always change your reaction to them.

MasterofCats

Get a grip!! Turn on the tv and see what's really important. Your kid will be fine as you clearly provide a fab life for him.

Putting yourself in debt to put your child into private school when you say there are excellent schools in your area is not a great idea. You should explain to your child that these schools cost more money than you have (I'm sure they can understand that concept at 7) and that there local schools in meant ways are just as good and I'm some ways may be better.

Trust me on this. I can just afford the fees (with scholarships etc) and I'm quite stressed about it all at times. I would never have considered borrowing money to do so. You have to think of yourself as well and realise that you're providing the best you can for your child and not being able to afford a fancy school does not alter that fact.

Private schools are better?

Nope they really are not

They really often are.
Not always though.
No axe to grind - I chose state.
You can’t blanket say that they are not.