"My parents dont let me watch the news": reflections on 11+ interviews I have carried out

[hannaretch]

Over the past few weeks I have been carrying out 11+ interviews with new applicants to our school -independent day school, outside of London, thought of as the most academic school in our town.

I generally talk to the children for 20 minutes about their studies, hobbies etc and ask them to talk about themselves. The aim is to get an idea of who they are and whether they will fit in with the school ethos. We tend to interview almost all applicants as we feel that a good interview will allow us to get a better view of the individual even those with marginal entrance exam results. They get information on the type of questions they are likely to get before the day to allow them to prepare. We also ask them to bring in an item which they then talk about.

One of the standard questions I and others ask is along the lines of do you follow the news? Talk about a current news story/ what do think about Ukraine/ climate change? type thing. Nothing too major but it allows us to get an idea of their awareness of the world. Most are able to answer with basic knowledge and some understanding of the issues and it often leads to good discussions.

I was shocked that two or three of the ones I have interviewed this year stated that they werent allowed to watch the news and had no opinions/ ideas about the issues. Surely watching the news at 6 etc or online or even Newsround is basic preparation for life? (or school interview at least?)

But it perfectly illustrates what an urban family would be horrified for their child to witness and worry about trauma, is normality for many rural farm kids.

I think my job teaching and researching at a university, it all began with encouragement from my parents to feed my curiosity about the world.
When I was 9 no way my parents would let me watch an 18 rated film, but I watched the 6 o’clock news, before that I watched Newsround and my parents would discuss politics and world events amongst themselves all the time. My mother was a Labour voter, my father a staunch Tory, so lots of political debate about world events, this was an excellent environment to grow up in. (They always kissed and made up) but would argue about unemployment, spending on nuclear missiles, wars raging around the world, it made me very aware, and they encouraged this awareness.

Yes filter by all means, no-one wants to show for example planes going into the side of buildings, violent war scenes etc, but encourage children to take an interest in world events and ensure a wide source of news- periodicals, journals and magazines, the FT and Economist is excellent for non-sensationalised news suitable for 10 year olds about world events.

Wow. Only on mumsnet would 10 year olds be reading the economist and the FT for easy access news coverage 😅

Of course! Lots of kids are academic and intelligent but perhaps not truly gifted.

I've seen it first time again and again. I'm assuming this school is looking for the latter. And maybe it's the kind of school with an ethos and environment where kids can ask lots of probing questions and are able to stray from the curriculum (which is not always possible in most schools, even the most selective)?

'first hand'

Our son is 8. We watch the news most days. Some days he watches it with us, some days it bores him ridged, but he's always allowed to watch it - how else will he become prepared for the world in which he is growing up? He also watches Newsround at school and often comes home with questions. Yes, some subjects are grim, but just because he's a child doesn't mean he shouldn't understand that that IS how the world is and that's what human beings do to each other.

We’ve always had the news on at breakfast time so our kids have always seen it . One as a young teen is quite squeamish and does sometimes ask to turn it over now - that started during lockdown - needless to say we turn it over

I haven't watched 'the news' since about 7 or 8 years ago. Everytime I go on holiday and have actual broadcast TV, I can't believe how boring and fluffy the breakfast show is.

I got apple news and I listen to Newscast. I don't demand my children read/listen to them though.

Many don't do TV or radio anymore.

Plenty of houses don’t listen to the radio or have terrestrial tv nowadays and just have netflix etc.

The news is always depressing - when I stopped watching it for several years (all news including websites) I felt to so much happier and didn’t feel like I missed out on anything. I only started watching the news again when the pandemic hit.

The children had a FirstNews subscription and I didn’t even read that.

The Week is also a good publication .. I got it for the teens but read it myself too . It provides comment from a variety of different sources and a more balanced and less sensational approach to that found on TV

If OP recruits for an Eton/ Harrow type school, they must get loads of boys 10 going on 40 at interview, that's probably why kids who aren't allowed to watch the news are so weird to the schoolmaster.

Reminds me of that French doc on the 12 year old Jacob Rees Mogg, bet he read the FT at 10, was probably writing letters to the editor complaining of their coverage on his portfolio stocks at 10.

This thread has reminded me of a book I found really useful with the current affairs content of my subject: Hans Rosling's "Factfulness". It would definitely be worth showing a 10 or 11 year old a page from that and seeing what they made of it.

Personally considering the amount of spin, misinformation, ect it's mix,

I have a clear recollection from watching the documentary series 7Up, 14Up, etc. In particular, in the 7Up episode, three little prep school boys were boasting about reading the FT and such. They weren't so gung ho about that in later interviews. In fact, they seemed pretty disgusted or at least highly conflicted about their younger selves and the very strange cultural environment they had inhabited in their early youth.

@DaddyPhD

A revolving door at no10, batshit crazy economic policies that blew a £30 billions wide hole in our economy, huge corruption during Covid, record breaking profits of gas companies while people have died of cold because they can't afford to switch on heating, and that's just in the UK! A halfwit in America nearly sparking a civil war , but dysfunction politics is a thing that happens outside the West???

And why would a child need to digest any of that? Even on a cognitive level that would be difficult for a child of 10.

Familiarity with certain terminology and the ability to follow an article on profits of gas companies doesn't prove intelligence above that of the general population either. It does, however, indicate hot-housing. It shows parents pushing a child toward PPE and Number Ten, or at least the vicinity thereof. In other words, it's a sign of parents who are either aspirational, narrow minded, focused on status, unimaginative, or all of the above. Possibly also willing to use their children as a means of establishing or cementing themselves in a certain tribe.

Is dogged pushing of children up the same old greasy pole their forefathers climbed what the UK needs? That this sort of focus is expected of prospects interviewing for Eton (or whatever other public schools do it) should be ringing alarm bells; it's certainly not a cause for self congratulation and anthems of praise for saving a small group of boys and girls from the encroaching Woke. The UK will remain a Them and Us society as long as this sort of nonsense passes for assessment of intellectual potential in its leading educational establishments. It's only evidence of living well inside the box deemed special by a certain part of society.

And 'halfwit'?

But I suspect my opinion would be dismissed as part of the anti-common sense, virtue signalling, North London intellectual woke agenda, by these same people who ban the news for their children.

It seems exposure to news and debate at home hasn't managed to prevent a very unfortunate closed-mindedness and parochial focus.

What are you doing here if not virtue signalling? Identifying with a certain tribe? Proposing a pro Establishment agenda?

Yeah I think that’s poor. It’s basic parenting to make sure your children have a basic understanding of current affairs, whether by telling them to read newsround each day, or simply by chatting to them. I try and tell them each day during dinner at least one news item, if it hasnt come up in discussion yet.
Big stuff though.. the earthquake, for example, or an election, or Ukraine I’d be surprised if an 11 yo had no knowledge! I mean the news is a main topic of conversation in many houses.

I'm afriad you've lost me @mathanxiety I haven't a clue what your post is trying to say, although you've tagged me and my post in here.

I pointed out corruption in the West in response to your post. And you say why would a child need to know any of that??? Or be able to at 10?? I certainly did at 10. It’s extremely healthy for a 10-year-old to know corruption in government, failures in government and to hold them account for this. If we have an informed, critical minded populace, they cannot be led by the nose on populist issues. Yes, I'm looking at you Trump, who behaves like a halfwit.

Familiarity with certain terminology and the ability to follow an article on profits of gas companies doesn't prove intelligence above that of the general population either

I haven't a clue what your talking about here, especially in reference to anyting I've written. Perhaps my suggestion of the FT and Economist as a source for balanced news? What has intellectual curiosity got to do with 'familiarity with certain terminology' ??

I'd be well impressed if a 10 year old could discuss at length fluctuations in the gas price market and the reasoning behind record profits of gas companies. It would take hardly 5 minutes to know if the kid had learnt certain terminology but had no real grasp or understanding of the subject.

If it became apparent they did have an understanding of the subject, I'd be happy to take that as proof of a level of intelligence beyond the average 10 year old, easily, I'm surprised you seem to think a 10 year that can follow an article on profits of a gas companies in the FT is no big deal

it's a sign of parents who are either aspirational, narrow minded, focused on status, unimaginative, or all of the above.

That could describe many hard working immigrant parents who want a better life for their children, it could describe our Prime Minister's parents who sent him to a famous public school even after he failed to get a scholarship, because they were determined to elevate him beyond the African immigrants they were.

You've tied in the class system to this, do you mean schools like Eton/Harrow perpetuate the class system? If so, I 100% agree, no argument from me there.

But as I said, I don't really understand your post.

Where you quoted me in the last part of your post, I was demonstrating how in criticising parents who ban their children from watching news, I would be dismissed as being a woke, virtue signalling, intellectual, I personally think the whole concept of 'woke' and 'virtue signalling' is bollocks, made up by fools in a desperate attempt to discredit anyone they disagree with.

This...News programmes are not educational they are sensational.

You don't sound terribly clued in with contemporary pedagogies and neuroscience, that's a bit of a shame for someone I an influential role at a selective and regarded private school.

I pointed out corruption in the West in response to your post. And you say why would a child need to know any of that??? Or be able to at 10?? I certainly did at 10. It’s extremely healthy for a 10-year-old to know corruption in government, failures in government and to hold them account for this. If we have an informed, critical minded populace, they cannot be led by the nose on populist issues. Yes, I'm looking at you Trump, who behaves like a halfwit.

Why is it 'extremely healthy' for a ten year old to know corruption in government, etc?

You state this is as if it's self evident. Your strongest argument in favour of it is that your parents saw fit to produce such a ten year old. You think everyone else should make the choices your parents did. There isn't much critical thinking there.

Do you want an informed, critical minded population of ten year olds who can't be led by the nose? A cohort of ten year olds who will hold failed governments to account?

Or do you want people of voting age to be critical thinkers, willing and able to exercise their democratic rights?

Because one scenario is desirable and achievable and the other is - well there are no words springing to mind right now to cover the utter preposterousness of it.

I just thought, as a final comment, I wonder if the OP asked questions about current affairs and, when the children they interviewed seemed clueless, asked if they watch the news, and they answered in the negative.

The points I've been making around gifted children v very able was not to suggest that middle-class, super driven parents should start shoving newspapers down their DC's mouths but rather that truly gifted children will actively SEEK OUT information about what's going on in the world. Unless you put a padlock on their laptops etc, they will look for it, they really will. There is nothing that will stop their curiosity about the world, and it does sometimes mean they get to see/hear things at times that perhaps some parents might think of as not age-appropriate. They will survive!

Of course, all of this doesn't mean that an able/highly able (but not quite gifted) child can't do very well academically (so, tiger mums/dads, please don't start force-feeding news programmes/papers to your DC). If these kids work hard, they will do very well, probably better than a gifted child who does not apply themselves.

Incidentally, gifted children aren't always the 'perfect, obedient pupil' in that they will challenge authority, ask 'difficult' questions and they often have a wicked sense of humour (early sarcasm). Google giftedness and you will see and, I suspect, this is what interviews at those super-duper selective schools are trying to tease out.

Ahahah I am a journalist and news-obsessed and, as a consequence, my kids refuse to watch the news just to piss me off...

Haha. By the way, my DC aren't gifted - but I have known and worked with gifted kids - but I'm fine with that. I'm not sure all parents on here can accept that their DC are not 'gifted'.

@LolaSmiles

I know many children who care about the oceans, recycling, saving energy, conservation, donating to the local food bank, the importance of local charities or causes close to their family's heart. Some are interested in science or history and the developments in those areas. One child I know is fascinated by space exploration. Their families talk about topics with them, support the child to develop their interests, they get children's news publications or NatGeo kids or books on the topics they're interested in. They might not sit around watching the goings on in the budget at the age of 9, or had daily updates on Putin's foreign policy, but they are kind, rounded children who enjoy learning.

When DS2 was in Y5 he was asked many times by his teacher to introduce topics they were going to do in science. I asked him how she asked him and he said that the teacher knew that he liked reading about many things (e.g. 1000 facts books) so I guess she wanted to boost his confidence. Then I asked him about a very clever boy in his class who later got accepted by a top super-selective grammar where currently the A-Levels average is A*- and if he is so clever why doesn't the teacher ask him? DS's answer was that all that boy does is 11+, he has no knowledge about the world (exact DS's words) and even during break times he would attempt 11+ questions

I know for sure that they had Newsround and age-appropriate news sources at school and various fiction and non-fiction books. However when parents prioritise and monopolise homework and 11+ it won't just affect your 11+ but also later university admissions if all you do is run away to solve even more problems. That was a NT child.

Dc seeking out new things made might not be current affairs though. It could be maths videos for example. Or whatever the interest is. It’d be a pity to use news as the decider when interest can be in something else

I don't watch the news - I find the images of dead children etc absolutely disrespectful. I read a newspaper, get the radio headlines etc.

My 9 year old watches an Irish children's news programme everyday and my oldest 15 would catch up online - Irish Times etc. I agree they need to be informed but the TV news is too graphic and I nor my children need those images in our heads. They remain informed and engaged - watching the news is not a skill - being informed is.

Yes parents definitely shelter children more now - because we have to. Years ago graphic images were not pumped into our homes on the hour every hour.

As I said, nothing wrong at all with not watching news or having other interest instead. I was just trying to make the point that giftedness tends to make kids look for stuff about the world, global current affairs etc. But the rest of us should not seek this out, let it be child led, I say.

Just thought I'd share this:

Common Characteristics of Gifted Children:

Ability to comprehend material several grade levels above their age peers

Surprising emotional depth and sensitivity at a young age

Strong sense of curiosity

Enthusiastic about unique interests and topics

Quirky or mature sense of humor

Creative problem solving and imaginative expression

Absorbs information quickly with few repetitions needed

Self-aware, socially aware, and aware of global issues

Not uncommon for gifted children to be disorganised (think of the cliche of the professor with stacks of notes/books covering their desk - it's not always true but quite common trait).