Homework at highly academic schools

[1sttodie]

If you have a child at a highly-selective grammar or indie, please could you share how much homework they are expected to complete per day, in Year 7 and subsequent years? Obviously, some children will work faster than others but it'd be useful to have an idea. I'm also curious whether your child is able to have extra-curricular activities throughout the week?

My post is prompted by a thread I've just come across about pressure/homework at QE school (North London). It talks about intense homework, with mention of 2 to 3 hours a day in Year 7. Does this reflect expectations for most pupils at high-performing schools? I'm thinking that surely not, as this wouldn't leave significant time for sports, etc - and would cause undue stress? And doing homework while exhausted can't be productive.

My son (Year 6) has not applied for QE but for other highly selective schools in South London. However academically driven and capable he is, I am now wondering if I should be concerned about the weight of homework.

Thank you!

At my son’s school they are “supposed” to get about 2x2 hours a week per subject.

Some children spend less than an hour, some more. Some don’t do it at all. The teacher might give a detention, but usually not.

Once they get into yr9 and they’re on the GCSE course snd they’re expected to revise on top of this eg make sure what they’ve learnt that week they know. This increases as they move through yr11.

Homework per se largely depends on the teacher. Some are excellent. Really engaged and bring their subjects alive. The homework they set is good to do. Others are not. They’re either underwhelmed by their job, emotionally elsewhere, possibly mid-divorce, waiting for retirement or struggle to make the subject anything more than words on a page. Their homework is usually a chore to do.

More often than not, the homework isn’t marked. I was surprised by this. Secondary is very different to primary. Grammar is even more self governed. It’s easy to fall behind. Grammar’s are focused on results and league tables. The number they can get into Oxbridge.

if your son is just over the pass mark, I’d think long and hard. It’s easy to become disillusioned and very average. Bright at primary doesn’t necessarily mean bright at Grammar.

My son is in yr11. I would say he’s pretty middle of the road in Year “ranking.” There are many who will likely struggle to get the GCSEs grades at the grammar that they would have at the non selective. The teaching at the other school in our town seems to be better in the sense that all children who want to do well are nurtured and can.

At the grammar, if you’re struggling in a subject or falling behind the solution usually is a tutor.

Don't for a minute think a grammar is a ticket to 10 x 9*. I think I thought it might be. If you’re a 6, you’re a six.

I appreciate it doesn’t answer your question, but I wish I’d have known this when my son was yr6. I’d have made different choices.

@Replyingnow Thank you. I really appreciate the comprehensive answer, which highlights that the question of homework is not as simplistic as a number of hours per day or week. It relates to quality of teaching, quality of homework, homework 'policing', homework corrections and follow-ups, support at school, etc. All good points.

I do worry about how much grammars (at least some grammars) may be relying on the quality of their intake, and families' ability/willingness to pay for private tutoring.

Still year 7 but ss London Grammar. So far none for first six weeks and then seems to be about half an hour a day so far. Doesn’t seem to cause stress or require much input. I imagine it will increase in future years.

How far in advance should you think about grammar schools? Do you have to move to a catchment?

I guess u apply in summer before they join but tutoring/movies etc can start when?

DS1 is in year 8 at a super-selective. He gets a couple of pieces a day. He whizzes through it though. Doesn’t seem to cause him any stress.

@Kaykaykaykay it depends on the grammar as to whether there is a catchment and any other entry criteria. At my DS’ grammar 120 places go to the highest scorers in the catchment - which is 12.5 miles as the crow flies so is a very wide area. The other 30 places are to the top scorers from outside the catchment. For his school, the exam is taken in September of year 6 - think you have to register by June of year 5 at the very latest. But, as I said it does vary by school/area so you would need check for where you wish to apply.

As with all state secondaries, you have to apply by 31 October in year 6. You apply to your local council for all places even where the school is not in that area. Some
schools have a supplementary form
that you need to send directly to the school.

Re tutoring, that’s up to the parent. My DS started preparation in the January of year 5 - so about nine months before the exam. However, it was really just exam practice and techniques for him.

London girls selective indie (not one of the super selectives)

Year 7
Week days : 2 X 30 mins homework
Weekend : 3 x 30 mins

Later years, time per homework and number of homeworks rise gradually.

I believe year 8s will have about 2 hours of homework on weekdays, but more on weekends etc (~ 2.5 hours)

The problem we faced is that DD (year 7) ended up spending well beyond 30 minutes per homework.

The school warned about perfectionism and has repeatedly advised to stop after 30 minutes, so we now make DD use a timer to ensure she doesn't spend more than what is expected. Else it becomes overwhelming very quickly, especially if DC is doing other things like you mentioned in your post.

Year 9 in a super selective non London Grammar and not much homework at all. Noticed a slight increase in year 9 but most nights he has nothing at all and then maybe a couple of hours worth at the weekend.

Kids at a super-selective indie. I think homework in y7 was supposed to be about an hour- couple of pieces a day. 2 hours is a lot for y7. However what the school says and what the kids actually do aren’t necessarily the same- DS has never done more than about an hour a day (he’s now a 6th former).

This is much less than my dd gets (state school), I always assumed it would be more? (Sorry for jumping in when I can’t answer your question).

What is a “super” selective?

Selective W London private. Starts at 40-60 minutes a day in Y7, in theory. In practice, much less as it’s usually ‘finish off whatever you didn’t get to in the lesson’, so dd has usually done all or most of it. Time limit for each piece of homework (usually 20 minutes) which should not be exceeded.

Ramps up a little each year, but entirely compatible with school and extra curricular clubs and activities. Testing is every half term, so usually homework one week will be revision, plus they have a reading week each term where homework won’t be written.

Loosely used here and 11plus forum for schools that are "very hard" to get into.

Definition will surely vary by region, but in London girls grammar context, probably the hardest to get into is Henrietta Barnett, with 28 aplications per year 7 place in 2021.

The boys equivalent probably will be Queen Elizabeth (10 applications per place I think?)

Private schools receive fewer applications obviously, as the high fees act as another barrier, but I am guessing "super selective" among them will be St Pauls (don't have the numbers), Westminster, City of London School for Girls (9 applications per place) etc.

Super-selective non-London grammar here and get hardly any homework in Y8. I actually find it a bit worrying. Especially if it massively ramps up in Y10/11 and they are not used to it.

DD is in year 7 at a non London grammar and appears to get very little. Her friends at the comp seem to get lots more with much harsher punishments for any missed. Averaged out it is probably around 30mins per day. She struggles with cracking on with longer projects or revision and then has a mad rush and has to spend an evening holed up upstairs, but I am assuming she will get fed up with that in tim me and get a bit more organised, not that I ever have.

Do really the same as any grammar. First pass the 11+ and then meet the entry requirements. That’s more “do you meet the entry requirements” than “super selective.” It is the same at my son’s school. People apply but don’t live in catchment or haven’t passed the 11+, for example. I want, doesn’t get! There was a huge rental scam going on in our town. People buy houses and rent to people out of catchment do they can get it. I can’t remember what happened but this was twigged.

there are some boys in my son’s year who’s parents did “break the system.” The poor kids aren’t winners. They have a long commute before and after. The Tube is erratic. The get late Mark’s gor no fault of their own. The can’t hangout in town after school. Sports fixtures cause more challenges and they have no local friends.

The parents got their way though!

DS is in super selective south london private. Year 7. 1hr a night (2 x 30min) and 1hr 45m on the weekend. Sometimes takes longer, sometimes less (languages are often revision for weekly test, which can be quick if your kid has a good memory. Other times can be research and a more creative task which can take bloody hours). The main thing to be aware of is how key it is to do the hw the night it is set. If you leave it, things build up very quickly and can get overwhelming…

We have the same experience. Also, through lockdown, the comp better catered for the teaching snd wellbeing of the children. My son’s grammar left them to get on with it. The then yr8s are now taking their GCSEs. The local science and maths tutors have made a killing. Most had lost close to a year’s learning. No going back over things. No checking until the year 10 exams last summer when the realisation was made!

The school also made the dangerous Assuming that there were no welfare issues at home. For some children, school is their lifeline. I’m not convinced any grammar is invested in pastoral care. The stories we hear about happenings at the girls school would curl your hair!

In my opinion and with the hindsight of severe years now reaching the end of compulsory education with my son in what I now learn is a “super selective” grammar, I would not get caught up in the hype and choose the local school. We have two in our town. I wish for his sake he’d just gone to the comp.

It’s really interesting to hear about homework at selective grammars. One of my fears was that the homework would be too much and the reason we decided against. DD got into one, but at the last minute we decided against as she does a sport to elite level and we were worried about the homework and pressure. That particular school were very clear that they expected around 2 hours a night homework from Year 7.

She’s at an outstanding state comp and they get about an hour a night in Year 9 on paper. In practice, she does less on some nights and more on others, but averaging about 6 hours a week. It’s manageable. I wouldn’t want her doing any more than that, though.

My DS went to a top 100 state grammar. I wouldn't say his homework obligations were particularly onerous. From memory, I'd say maybe 30-60 minutes per night on average and maybe a few hours over the weekend for longer projects, essays, etc.

Usually, the weekday evening homework would be pretty short/simple such as finishing off what they started in class, so could be anything from a few minutes to an hour in total. There'd also be revision for tests etc., particularly languages, but that was very variable according to how quickly he learned the content - he'd often learn MFL words etc in bed, or even on the bus on the way to school in the morning.

For the longer things such as essays, projects, etc., they'd be given at least a 1 or 2 week timescale to do it, so it was up to them when they did the work - DS couldn't be bothered doing "big" things on school days, so he preferred to take time out at weekends for them, usually it would be Saturday and/or Sunday mornings, but occasionally a "big" project could take a full day (such as a video/powerpoint presentation or computer program) but they'd usually have lots of time to do it (often 4 weeks), so it was his choice to take an entire weekend day, as he could have done it in a few stages over several evenings (and the very "big" projects were often only once per term). Sometimes the big things clashed but usually it was because DS didn't plan properly and instead of doing 2 or 3 big projects over 3 weekends, would end up spending an entire single weekend (both days, all day), doing all 2 or 3, but that was his fault really!

Overall, I don't remember the homework etc taking up too much of his free time. But he did "get his head down" during lessons, so the "complete today's work" style of homework was usually pretty quick as he'd have done most, if not all, of it during the lessons.

Dc in selective central London girl's school.

Max 45 mins homework per night in yr7 - girls are told NOT to do more. Going up to 1hr in yr 10 but dd doesn't seem to spend long on it.

DS yr 9 and DD yr 7 at SS London Grammars. In years 7 and 8, the teachers aren't supposed to set homework that takes more than 30 minutes, and only 2-3 subjects are allowed to set homework a day (we were sent a schedule). This increases to 45 minutes in year 9. They also can't set overnight homework.

I would say they each do around 6 hours a week, and most of that can be done at the weekend. There are also optional things like poetry, photography, music competitions. DS in particular does a lot of extracurricular so stays on each afternoon to do that. Obviously if they have tests coming up, they might choose to do extra work - and parents might have other ideas... The boys' school sends emails before the holidays asking the parents to make sure the boys get a proper break!

I understand the definition of a superselective grammar is one that doesn’t have a catchment area, and offers places purely based on score (top down).

However, it’s not quite as clear-cut as that, as some grammars considered superselective do have priority areas, and most (all?) have a limited number of places available for pupil premium children (this might be 'top down' to a maximum of eg 25 places with a minimum score).

A ‘selective’ grammar might have a minimum score and a catchment area, so everyone living within the catchment that achieves that score or above (this could be a wide range of scores!) gets a place.

My DD is in Y7 in a superselective state grammar (by my definition above). It’s in the top 25 state schools nationally according to the Sunday Times Parent Power list (not sure how much store anyone sets by that!), but it isn’t in London. I get the impression that some of the top grammars in London are harder to get into, so I’m not sure whether DD’s school fits your description of a highly academic school.

So far, her homework has been lighter than I expected. The expectation was 30 minutes per subject per week, but in reality she’s only had 4-6 pieces per week. Often, as a PP said, the homework will be to finish off something from the class, so DD might have finished it in class, or it only takes five minutes. Normally, 30 minutes has been more than enough time. So I’d say she does 2-3h per week at the moment. She has done it all without fuss and doesn't appear to find it challenging so far (she won’t let us look/engage – as per school instructions!)

My son is year 7 i would say it is an hour or two a day.

@LetItGoToRuin my DS is at a top ten grammar on the list you refer to but it wouldn’t fit your criteria as there is a (very wide) priority area for the majority of the places. However, there is no minimum score - competition is too fierce to need a minimum score. It’s top down.