Over zealous school discipline

[creamybun]

Is this normal- 13 yo sons school sends parents spreadsheets re how many toilet visit child has had during lessons, spreadsheets re how many times late to class, lists of number of merits & demerits, phone calls home re a bit of high jinx in the playground, phone calls for a bit of backchat in class. They’ll fire off a gazillion phone calls, emails or request meetings with parents by zoom for “a chat”, but god forbid if you request it in person they’ll do everything possible to put parents off actually coming in. In 2 years we’ve only had 1 parents night face to face, the others were all via zoom. The level of constant complaining about the children and watching their every move is quite distressing, both to the parents who dread “the phone call” and to the kids who feel they’re under surveillance 7 hours a day.
obviously it’s been a very long time since my school days when school didn’t give a shit if pupils were there or not or what they were doing! So I’m out my depth with this and living in dread every day of what the school day will bring.

Ps I should say I’ve checked with sons friends parents and they all said similar things about this school

We get access to info but predominantly positive, I have never had a phone call and the school certainly doesn't tell me about toilet visits.

These things though: phone calls home re a bit of high jinx in the playground, phone calls for a bit of backchat in class are not small matters, it sounds like there is some disruption going on?

Your school sounds like it is struggling tbh.

Most schools don't allow children to go to the toilet in lesson times so that wouldn't be a normal contact point for parents. The other things that you mention such as late for lessons, backchat and 'high jinks' are not normal and you are underplaying that - that would be a cause for contact in most schools I can think of.

Secondary schools are increasingly operating like this. It’s not working. It’s miserable. Normal in the sense that it’s being normalised, but it’s certainly not helpful. It must be awful being under that level of scrutiny. I feel for our young people.

We get lates, merits and demerits in an app. Toilet breaks? Wtaf

Back chat is not a minor matter. In my experience by the time they call home it's happened multiple times and the teacher is at the end of their tether.
With regards to playground high jinx- I obviously don't know details but again, this is likely to be repeated behaviour because schools prefer to warn them in the hopes that it stops and they don't have to call home etc There a thin line between high jinx and bullying, someone getting hurt and antisocial behaviour out of school when there's no adult supervision. I'm not saying that your son will end up a criminal but the sort of people who end up with ASBOs were at the playground high jinx place at one time and behaviour not changing then led to that path.

Schools have to monitor stuff like that because they are monitored by OFSTED and can be sued of kids are hurt when they are supposed to be looking after them. If you want a more relaxed school then you'll probably need to consider the sorts of schools rated inadequate

Is this for all students or just yours? High jinxs in the playground - you’re minimising poor behaviour.

Other than toilet visits we get all that.
Although phone calls home are generally because of particularly poor behaviour, so I suspect you may be minimising how bad your DC is behaving. If nothing else, teachers don't have time to ring parents about every child "for a bit of backchat"

Sounds like your child and his friends are being quite difficult and the school are hoping you parents will all parent your children. No teachers put together spreadsheets like this or waste time on emails for shits and giggles.
Why do you need a face-to-face meeting instead of a Zoom one? It sounds like you're purposely being difficult as well.

It’s not a stretch to expect kids to pee during break times, not give cheek, and arrive on time to a room that should take less than three minutes to walk to from wherever they are in the building. There is a huge amount of learning to get through in secondary, every single second is accounted for and meant to count. The ‘constant complaining’ is a huge admin headache to teachers who are meant to be educating and they wouldn’t do it unless it was necessary.

This.
I can't imagine that busy teachers are devoting so much time to reporting discipline unless they consider there to be a problem. But it's kind of refreshing to hear someone complaining about a school setting expectations of behaviour and boundaries when the complaints are usually that they don't!

Also fascinated about when you went to school and they didn't care about your behaviour OP. At the type old age of 65, I recall my school being very hot on attendance, behaviour, and discipline. Perhaps it says more about the sort of school you went to that they didn't care?

It's interesting to see the replies when you dare to question school procedures.
I hope the next generation actually have the courage to try something different regarding education.

So what are your suggestions? No boundaries, no expectations, and no standards?

It sounds lovely je your child is causing problems if you are getting spreadsheets like these. I find out about credits only but then my child behaves

If you don't agree with the rules or procedures in a school, educate your children elsewhere.

Quveas

presumably in her perfect school kids will be able to wander in and out of lessons, have playground fights while vandalising the buildings and tell teachers to shut up if they are told off in lessons.
I wish her good luck in finding anyone who wishes to work in a school like that…..

Well thanks for nothing peeps, you all sound very self righteous . It’s Scotland by the way so our education system is nothing like England’s. I’ll delete this thread now and suffer in silence, I will not seek advice again since such advice will be clearly dealt out as criticism. Seriously I’m horrified at how nasty these comments are. I hope your perfect little robots don’t dare act like children. You’ve all done a horrid job of making me feel worse.

If everyone else is saying something different to you then maybe it’s time to listen. I say this as an experienced secondary teacher. Time and time again I would see the difference between parents who stepped up when their 13 year old was messing around and those who didn’t. The parents who didn’t support the school and made excuses or blamed the school would be contacting the school 3 years later asking for help with their child who was now being a pain in the arse at home too, some times in community and failing at school. At that point no matter how hard the parents and school worked together there was very little time to turn things round.

Interesting over reaction!

Op I was a classroom teacher and I agree with you, a spreadsheet detailing toilet breaks sounds very over the top.

Otoh back chat in class is annoying and disruptive. Your op does sound a bit as tho you are minimising this, and issues such as being late for lessons. If you are able tk support the school on this and make sure your child knows that, it would be positive for all.

I recall ringing a parent zbout their child's behaviour (not a thing I did lightly tbh) and got the response "well its just chatting, it's not just them, we don't care about German" - unfortunately that told me what I needed to know.

I hope your perfect little robots don’t dare act like children
This is a total overreaction.

Well behaved children are not robots. They're children who display perfectly standard child behaviour.

As schools staff don't have time to call home for every moment of backchat
There's usually warnings within the behaviour policies and during the day sanctions before a phonecall happens. If you're getting multiple phonecalls from school I would imagine your child's behaviour isn't acceptable.

Thinking about schools I've worked in that means I child with a 5 lesson day could back chat a teacher 15 times in a school day and still not meet the threshold for a phone call. The children in the same class as that child have had 15 interruptions to their learning from one pupil alone.

Sucessinthenewyear
I've noticed a similar trend as well.
When parents and school work together, the child is well supported. When parents undermine the school and minimise their children's behaviour, the child learns they can play home off against school.

I’m not in favour of being sent toilet break info. My guess here would be that the school is using the same app to log attendance, loo breaks, behaviour points… and so what’s being sent out is an amalgamation of all the data. I think they’re basically spamming the loo data, rather than actually expecting you to act on it.

That said, if I received it and saw that my child was repeatedly out for loo breaks, I’d be asking them why.

Backchat is a big deal.

I have a Y10 & Y12, and older stepsons too. All four of them have been told off over the years of chatting in class. But none of them ever for backchat.

There’s a difference between being a non robotic normal kid who needs to be told they’re talking at the wrong time, and your child who is actually being directly rude to a teacher.

I’d want to be called about backchat.

We record all that info in an app for parents to see. Toilet trips are logged as some go to the toilet every lesson, not to use the toilet but to meet up with friends or just generally avoid learning. If we know we can help. Trust me teachers don't have time to phone home for 'hi jinx'. If you are getting a phone call either learning is being disrupted or behaviour is becoming dangerous. Back chat is never acceptable, chatting maybe depending on the circumstances. Just be aware that your attitude towards school at home is generally what we are coming back in with your child. "My mum says she doesn't care if you phone her/send emails/book a meeting" meaning the child rarely cares either

Also in Scotland.

In ds's 6 years in secondary I had one letter letting me know he had been consistently late for classes. Asked ds and he said he could only remember 2 instances, once was due to previous lessons teacher keeping them late the other he and some friends mistimed getting back from lunch. Phoned school to check his side and they matched, guidance teacher said it was an automatic letter and not to worry about it. Told ds to watch his lunchtime timing.

Second was a phone call for encouraging another pupil who was back chatting by over dramatically laughing. Apologised on his behalf and had very strong words with ds.

We didnt get spreadsheets but if ds was regularly disrupting lessons doing all those things regularly I would want to know about it so i could support the school and nip deterioting behaviour in the bud, so I dont think it is necessarily a bad thing.

Ah. I see. That changes everything. Clearly, since it's Scotland, there shouldn't be any discipline.

You asked for opinions, and have a tantrum when you don't get everyone lining up to agree with you? Perhaps you might reflect on your child's backchat and where they learned that trait? You aren't "suffering" - certainly not in slience either. You are being apprised of your child's behaviour and conduct in school. If that doesn't suit you, then you are at liberty to find a school more to your liking, or homeschool. But being told how your child behaves at school isn't anything like "suffering*