Over zealous school discipline

[creamybun]

Is this normal- 13 yo sons school sends parents spreadsheets re how many toilet visit child has had during lessons, spreadsheets re how many times late to class, lists of number of merits & demerits, phone calls home re a bit of high jinx in the playground, phone calls for a bit of backchat in class. They’ll fire off a gazillion phone calls, emails or request meetings with parents by zoom for “a chat”, but god forbid if you request it in person they’ll do everything possible to put parents off actually coming in. In 2 years we’ve only had 1 parents night face to face, the others were all via zoom. The level of constant complaining about the children and watching their every move is quite distressing, both to the parents who dread “the phone call” and to the kids who feel they’re under surveillance 7 hours a day.
obviously it’s been a very long time since my school days when school didn’t give a shit if pupils were there or not or what they were doing! So I’m out my depth with this and living in dread every day of what the school day will bring.

Homestly if you are getting phonecalls - zoom meetings. There are an issue with you dc..

Do you think they have time to feequently contact every parent constantly about there child.

My ds has Adhd. I have recieved the odd phonecall/ email over issues, but have taken them seriously. Tried to work out solutions not got agro with the school.

FWIW I agree with you op.

They treat young people like machines and no wonder the mental health stats are terrible. School should be a place to feel safe, have a laugh with your mates, learn from teachers who respect children and deal wisely with the odd bit of normal teenage (human) backchat.

My dd - who was a compliant, sensitive, bright child was completely destroyed by her secondary school which operated like yours op. She left broken, and it put her off education for life. This child who never said boo to a goose, dutifully did all her homework, got the highest grades in her SATS, scraped 9 GCSEs a-c and at 21 is unemployed and uncertain about adult life. The rot set in at secondary school. She’s never recovered.

My kids school is not like this. I agree with you. This level of micromanaging/ reporting creates a default 'kids are little shits' attitude and doesn't allow them to take responsibility for themselves at all as well as being a dreary easy to live. I can see mine is the minority opinion though.

We don't have spreadsheets but my DD's school is ridiculously strict and hands out detentions for the most minor infractions. DD is quiet and sensitive but was perfectly happy at primary school. She is now anxious, withdrawn and on the verge of school refusal. She is too frightened to say a word in class (then the teachers complain about that of course). We've tried to access pastoral support but it's virtually non-existent.

I'm sorry to hear that. Sounds so similar to my DD. Maybe I should try to move her 😔.

Yes exactly the same @Forever42 - happy kid in primary and then secondary broke her. They are harsh to keep the optimum crowd control but it’s too much for well-behaved conscientious kids. It just causes perpetual fear and anxiety.

I don’t know where you’d move her though - they’re all the same. My dd’s secondary was a highly rated church school that prided itself on its pastoral care. Ironically.

Being late to class and back chatting causes disruption to the teacher and the other 29 students who want to learn. High jinx in the playground takes teacher time away from other jobs and students. I'm pleased your teachers are pulling you and your child up on these things. These rules apply in my kids high school and make life much more pleasant for every other student.

I agree with you OP. Secondary schools are very close to prison with all their rules. I would hate to go to work with that level of scrutiny from my boss but kids seems to have to put up and shut up. The system needs to change.

I wonder if part of the problem is that the school report everything - so it’s difficult to tell when it is a big deal. Loo visits and being late to class may actually be minor (unless the boy is extremely late very often).

For those who think some level of "backchat" should be allowed, you do need to bear in mind teachers are people too, and they have a right to work in an environment which isn't causing them additional stress and isn't abusive.

It is very stressful to work in an environment where students argue or are rude over every little thing.

I think sending details of toilet breaks is a bit weird, though.

Also, secondary school classes are so large now, often the only way things like practical work can be done is if there is mass compliance and strict discipline. My largest science class last year was 34 students.

If you have 34 students e.g. using bunsen burners, and one decides to mess around a bit, what do you think happens?

I understand the importance of keeping the unruly students in check. But it's not OK if the always well-behaved children are scared to go to school. Surely there's a happy medium. I'm a primary teacher, which I know is different, but I manage to be strict with the children who need firm boundaries without scaring the ones who don't.

Same at my DGS school, to the point he was refused a toilet visit last week and wet himself walking home. At first he was too embarrassed to tell his Mum. Surely its a basic human right to use tge bathroom??

There is sense in logging toilet visits, because then they pick up whether it's a one-off (fair enough - they should be using breaks, but everyone forgets sometimes) or happening several times a week. What should be done with that information is another matter. If it's genuine medical need, then the parents should be encouraged to get it checked out with the GP. If it's that the kid is struggling to keep it together in lessons, that needs investigating too. If it's that he just likes an extra break or has arranged to meet his friends, then it needs to stop.
Logging also helps if there is vandalism during lesson time - they can see who it might be.

(I taught a kid who asked to use the toilet in every double lesson. I spoke to the school nurse, who had him in to check if there was a medical reason. It never happened again!)

The toilet policing is extreme. My daughter got repeated STI’s in primary school and we couldn’t understand why, until she explained that she was repeatedly refused access to the toilet. I was furious, and wrote a strongly worded complaint backed up by a doctor’s note. It never happened again, but she has kidney scarring.

More recently in her secondary school, a poor girl was refused access to the toilet when she needed to change her pad and had to suffer the humiliation of leaking during the lesson. It’s a horrible way to operate.

We have a rising mental health epidemic amongst young people, tens of thousands experiencing emotionally based school avoidance, and increasing numbers also being deregistered, and electively home educated. There is a big problem in our education system.

CherryBlossom321 that's horrific! I understand that schools have an extremely difficult task of trying to maintain some kind of order and level of behaviour but it's a draconian approach.

My DGS was feeling ill the other day and texted his Mum. She told him to go to student reception and someone would collect him. The tutor refused to let him go, so his Mum told him to call her and put his phone on his pocket and ask again . The tutor refused and my Dd could hear the conversation. She was furious and DGS gave the phone to his tutor who hastily apologised. She then got an email with a further apology, saying that perhaps they need to review their student sickness policy. It's disgraceful that she had to resort to such a underhand method to get her child put of school who was clearly ill.

Yes, I’ve also experienced my DD being told she couldn’t go home when ill. Even when I called ahead and said I was collecting her, the receptionist tried to claim that I wasn’t “allowed to take her without the agreement of the head of year”. Erm, I’m her parent. I did take her home, and she was very poorly. They seem to believe the worst of all children until proven otherwise. Really sad.

@creamybun some students use trips to the bathroom to vape; it's a particular issue in my DS' school. Frequent toilet visits can be a sign of this.