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Original poster

Why is the culture of team sport toxic?

73 replies

MrsPhilDunphy · 27/01/2023 10:27

I’m noticing a big focus on team sport in the private school my children go to, being selected for fixtures is everything and it tends to be the same kids.

My question is if team sport is meant to be about socialising, building team spirit, friendships etc. then why is it isolating those who may not necessarily be good at it? And some kids get picked on because they missed a shot or didn’t defend well… it’s enough to put my children off but I want them to continue for health and fitness.

We recently went to a match (against another school) where the other team were extremely intimidating, and pushing a lot. I understand competition but do it skilfully, why resort to pushing and shoving and intimidating?

OP posts:
MintyFreshOne · 27/01/2023 14:09

team sports are mostly enjoyed by people who aren’t very bright

Horrible thing to tell your child.

And it isn’t even true. Fit boys tend to have higher IQs (probably true for girls
as well but haven’t read a study on this)

barneshome · 27/01/2023 14:11

MrsPhilDunphy · 27/01/2023 10:27

I’m noticing a big focus on team sport in the private school my children go to, being selected for fixtures is everything and it tends to be the same kids.

My question is if team sport is meant to be about socialising, building team spirit, friendships etc. then why is it isolating those who may not necessarily be good at it? And some kids get picked on because they missed a shot or didn’t defend well… it’s enough to put my children off but I want them to continue for health and fitness.

We recently went to a match (against another school) where the other team were extremely intimidating, and pushing a lot. I understand competition but do it skilfully, why resort to pushing and shoving and intimidating?

Sport is the best thing any kid can do in my opinion.
I have made many friends through being in sports teams
So has my other half
And kids
Play to win hard then shake hands at the end and have a drink together
My hubby and I were in a pub the other month when hubby went up to a guy who was at the bar
Said "Hi do you remember me?"
Guy said yes you used to play for xx
Hubby pointed toa scar on his shin and " yes that was you !"
We drank with them for the rest of the evening and now chat every time we are in the same pub as they have moved to the area.
That is what sport does.
Teaches durability resilience teaches not to hold grudges teaches teamwork loyalty teaches that sometimes in life you have to lose and accept it teaches that you do not always get what you want teaches that sometimes you have to stand up for yourself

arethereanyleftatall · 27/01/2023 14:12

LeCarre · 27/01/2023 12:25

I’m baffled by the whole thing. Why on earth is it seen as good to excel at football etc? It’s the most useless skill in the workplace ever. Schools babble about teamwork and fitness while causing social isolation and injuries in compulsory team sports that make the brighter less ‘sporty’ children miserable.

I’ve told my child that, while it’s important to swim and jog, team sports are mostly enjoyed by people who aren’t very bright, and to focus his energy on coding, which he’s a genius at and I suspect will take him much further in life than kicking a ball back and forth 👀

I find the whole thing very odd.

Um?!? You couldn't be more wrong. Healthy body is a healthy mind. Time and time again the kids who are thriving on the sports pitches are thriving on the classroom too.

Phewthatwasclose · 27/01/2023 14:16

LeCarre · 27/01/2023 12:25

I’m baffled by the whole thing. Why on earth is it seen as good to excel at football etc? It’s the most useless skill in the workplace ever. Schools babble about teamwork and fitness while causing social isolation and injuries in compulsory team sports that make the brighter less ‘sporty’ children miserable.

I’ve told my child that, while it’s important to swim and jog, team sports are mostly enjoyed by people who aren’t very bright, and to focus his energy on coding, which he’s a genius at and I suspect will take him much further in life than kicking a ball back and forth 👀

I find the whole thing very odd.

There is a boy in my kids' school who sounds like he's got parents like you. He told a sporty child that he's dumb and is going to be a bin man when he grows up. He's now universally disliked :(

barneshome · 27/01/2023 14:17

LeCarre · 27/01/2023 12:25

I’m baffled by the whole thing. Why on earth is it seen as good to excel at football etc? It’s the most useless skill in the workplace ever. Schools babble about teamwork and fitness while causing social isolation and injuries in compulsory team sports that make the brighter less ‘sporty’ children miserable.

I’ve told my child that, while it’s important to swim and jog, team sports are mostly enjoyed by people who aren’t very bright, and to focus his energy on coding, which he’s a genius at and I suspect will take him much further in life than kicking a ball back and forth 👀

I find the whole thing very odd.

You seem the not very bright one and ignorant
I assume that you and your partner are s++ at sport and jealous of those who are not
You are teaching you kid just to code
He is going be one of those messed up kids who cannot socialise communicate will be anxious and depressed and lonely
A snowflake who cannot take the hard knocks in life
You are setting hi up for a great future

DaddyPhD · 27/01/2023 14:19

LeCarre · 27/01/2023 12:25

I’m baffled by the whole thing. Why on earth is it seen as good to excel at football etc? It’s the most useless skill in the workplace ever. Schools babble about teamwork and fitness while causing social isolation and injuries in compulsory team sports that make the brighter less ‘sporty’ children miserable.

I’ve told my child that, while it’s important to swim and jog, team sports are mostly enjoyed by people who aren’t very bright, and to focus his energy on coding, which he’s a genius at and I suspect will take him much further in life than kicking a ball back and forth 👀

I find the whole thing very odd.

Goal orientated, team player, working in unison together as a team, observing the parameters of the rules, fair play, gracious in defeat, hungry for victory, handshakes before and after each game….Yep, I can see how employers would see these as useless skills….

FluffyHamster · 27/01/2023 15:02

barneshome · 27/01/2023 14:11

Sport is the best thing any kid can do in my opinion.
I have made many friends through being in sports teams
So has my other half
And kids
Play to win hard then shake hands at the end and have a drink together
My hubby and I were in a pub the other month when hubby went up to a guy who was at the bar
Said "Hi do you remember me?"
Guy said yes you used to play for xx
Hubby pointed toa scar on his shin and " yes that was you !"
We drank with them for the rest of the evening and now chat every time we are in the same pub as they have moved to the area.
That is what sport does.
Teaches durability resilience teaches not to hold grudges teaches teamwork loyalty teaches that sometimes in life you have to lose and accept it teaches that you do not always get what you want teaches that sometimes you have to stand up for yourself

Show quote history

But you see, THIS is what I think is the problem with sporty kids and their parents. They think that these sort of qualities can ONLY be achieved through sport, and it's simply not true!
Being part of any kind of shared endeavour, which requires planning, practice, commitment, skill, teamwork, gains and setbacks, energy etc teaches the same skills - that could be DofE, a volunteering project, a drama production, a maths olympiad ...

OP - I do agree with you that those into competitive sport seem to think they have the monopoly in developing these skills! 😂

edwinbear · 27/01/2023 15:33

@FluffyHamster I completely agree with you - playing in an orchestra, singing in a choir, taking part in a play, will also provide the same levels of commitment, teamwork, camaraderie etc. Unfortunately, whilst DC are both good at sport, the pair of them are utterly hopeless at music/drama - although they are super proud of their friends who are talented in more creative extra curriculars.

Original poster
MrsPhilDunphy · 27/01/2023 17:47

FluffyHamster · 27/01/2023 15:02

But you see, THIS is what I think is the problem with sporty kids and their parents. They think that these sort of qualities can ONLY be achieved through sport, and it's simply not true!
Being part of any kind of shared endeavour, which requires planning, practice, commitment, skill, teamwork, gains and setbacks, energy etc teaches the same skills - that could be DofE, a volunteering project, a drama production, a maths olympiad ...

OP - I do agree with you that those into competitive sport seem to think they have the monopoly in developing these skills! 😂

Show quote history

100% agree with you, competition, work hard play hard mentality, team working can all be achieved successfully in other areas of extra curricular activities, my kids are very good at music and compete in local competitions/festivals, are part of several orchestras, but the culture is so much nicer, why does sport bring out this macho culture? Also what happened to the ‘Be kind’ ‘say no to bullying’ campaign in school, it seems like in sport it’s a free for all!

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsPhilDunphy · 27/01/2023 17:53

On a side note I do worry that the school pushes their sporty children without a regard for the kids academic achievement, what is their back up plan? Even Emma Raducanu got A’s in her A-levels, probably as a result of the parents ensuring she had a backup career.

OP posts:
Oblomov22 · 27/01/2023 17:59

I don't understand the confusion. It's competitive. You put your best team out. Choose the best players. Why would you not? Both my boys are good at football, good at cross county. I was good at hockey. Not great at netball. Not being good at netball didn't affect my self esteem, my life. We can't all be good at stuff. Soon you learn that. I seriously can't see the problem.

Oblomov22 · 27/01/2023 18:04

I disagree with Fluffy. There's are loads of kids who are very academically bright. And some who have it all - good looking, nice family, bright, brilliant at every sport, have nice friends - they have everything going for them. Some are gifted in drama or music. there are some kids who just aren't that great at anything. So?

FluffyHamster · 27/01/2023 18:12

Oblomov22 · 27/01/2023 18:04

I disagree with Fluffy. There's are loads of kids who are very academically bright. And some who have it all - good looking, nice family, bright, brilliant at every sport, have nice friends - they have everything going for them. Some are gifted in drama or music. there are some kids who just aren't that great at anything. So?

What are you disagreeing with me about, @Oblomov22 ?

I'm arguing that competitive sport isn't the only route to gaining valuable life skills.

DanseAvecLesLoup · 27/01/2023 18:12

I think it is a daft to imply that all team sports have a "toxic" culture. In my experience it is very much dependant on the pre-existing culture that the club/school foisters onto members and indeed the sport itself. Yes, when you get to the more competitive higher level in sports it can be less forgiving and the training more intense, more sacrifices, more focused attitude and little room for people not taking it seriously or mucking about.

FluffyHamster · 27/01/2023 18:18

I'd even venture to suggest that perhaps our obsession with competitive sport leads to problems later in life and society if the attitude is carried over into adulthood and work. Our UK parliament is constructed on two sides of a 'pitch' with teams 'scoring points', attacking and defending, with all their braying supporters on the sidelines. Hardly surprising that so many of them come from private education and see this as the only style that's acceptable.
I'm not a raging leftie, but it's clear our whole capitalist system is based on 'winning' at all costs.
If someone is going to 'win' then by default someone else must 'lose'. Not a great model for teamwork, collaboration, collective problem solving etc.

twistyizzy · 27/01/2023 18:21

MrsPhilDunphy · 27/01/2023 10:27

I’m noticing a big focus on team sport in the private school my children go to, being selected for fixtures is everything and it tends to be the same kids.

My question is if team sport is meant to be about socialising, building team spirit, friendships etc. then why is it isolating those who may not necessarily be good at it? And some kids get picked on because they missed a shot or didn’t defend well… it’s enough to put my children off but I want them to continue for health and fitness.

We recently went to a match (against another school) where the other team were extremely intimidating, and pushing a lot. I understand competition but do it skilfully, why resort to pushing and shoving and intimidating?

Most private schools have a much stronger emphasis on team sports that state schools so I'm surprised that you are surprised. The private school DD is hopefully going to has PE 4-6 times a week + Saturdays however they don't prioritise it above academia, it is equally important. Previous students have gone on to play rugby for England and international athletics. Private schools generally have much better sports facilities than state schools so need to utilise them.
I'm just surprised that you are so shocked by this to be honest.

DanseAvecLesLoup · 27/01/2023 18:22

team sports are mostly enjoyed by people who aren’t very bright

Missed this gem😂

I qualified and competed at Henley Royal Regatta. I also have a mechanical engineering degree and a masters in offshore subsea engineering. Clearly I am an anomaly.

mathanxiety · 27/01/2023 18:32

If there's a problem with bullying and lack of supportiveness then the coach is not doing his or her job.

The problem should be brought up.

It doesn't mean all sport at all schools have the same issue.

I see sport as a complimentary activity to academics. My DCs who were on school teams for various sports were also the most successful academically.

It's a pity to see kids pigeon holing themselves - I'm not sporty, I'm not a maths person, I'm not a literature person, etc. What is holding them back?

mathanxiety · 27/01/2023 18:39

Lol, I missed that gem too.

If nothing else, managing the time demands of rigorous classes on top of rigorous practice and match schedules taught my DCs a good few life skills.

puffyisgood · 27/01/2023 23:57

yeah, the old BS that 'the Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton' etc, i.e. that the values, particularly along 'muscular christianity' etc, of the British public schools, are the stuff that empires are made of, isn't ageing especially well, and, generally, the skills that make you good at sports, i.e. hand-eye coordination and so on, are fairly transparently irrelevant when it comes to adult professional and personal development, but, really, sports are I suppose, y'know, a way to stay physically in shape, a way to stay in touch with our primitive ancestors a little bit, it's of course true that you don't need to be a halfway decent, or otherwise capable, person to excel in sport, but equally being involved in/good at sport doesn't say anything negative about you either. it's a cross section of society like many other things. in the main, co-ed schools tend to have a vastly healthier and more balanced perspective on the merits of sport.

MiddleParking · 28/01/2023 07:53

MrsPhilDunphy · 27/01/2023 17:53

On a side note I do worry that the school pushes their sporty children without a regard for the kids academic achievement, what is their back up plan? Even Emma Raducanu got A’s in her A-levels, probably as a result of the parents ensuring she had a backup career.

You send your kids to a private school where they have no regard for the students’ academic achievements?

edwinbear · 28/01/2023 08:35

Certainly as DC’s school, if your academics start to slip, or you find yourself in detention on a regular basis, one of the first things to go is your place on the school sports teams. It’s considers a privilege to be selected, but if your grades deteriorate, or your homework isn’t in on time because of sport, school will easily fix that by dropping you.

Plumbear2 · 28/01/2023 08:44

LeCarre · 27/01/2023 12:25

I’m baffled by the whole thing. Why on earth is it seen as good to excel at football etc? It’s the most useless skill in the workplace ever. Schools babble about teamwork and fitness while causing social isolation and injuries in compulsory team sports that make the brighter less ‘sporty’ children miserable.

I’ve told my child that, while it’s important to swim and jog, team sports are mostly enjoyed by people who aren’t very bright, and to focus his energy on coding, which he’s a genius at and I suspect will take him much further in life than kicking a ball back and forth 👀

I find the whole thing very odd.

How offensive is your comment? My son excels at a team sport. He is also extremely intelligent, top sets for everything and also excells in computer science ( coding). Fair enough tell him where he achieved but don't put down people who do team sports, it's insulting and not true.

beingsunny · 28/01/2023 09:18

This is so interesting, my son starts at a private boys school (yr 5) next week, it's got a reputation for being highly sporty, however they have an everyone gets a go ethos. So basketball may have 8 teams depending on how many kids want to choose that as their summer sport, they get graded on ability (which has a specific criteria) so they will be placed in a team with kids of a similar ability.

They all train twice a week, they all compete, so I find very inclusive.

My close friend has a daughter at the sister girls school who was a keen netballer and was in one of the lower teams, they just had an amazing year where their let's say D team (so not very skilled) just won the inter school champs. We literally spoke about it this morning and she said it was the camaraderie of the team that really helped them play so well that they ended up winning.

Original poster
MrsPhilDunphy · 28/01/2023 09:40

MiddleParking · 28/01/2023 07:53

You send your kids to a private school where they have no regard for the students’ academic achievements?

Show quote history

No regard for academic results for the sporty kids - they get pulled out of Maths and English classes for extra training and fixtures.

Private schools are a business - so many closed down during Covid, winning in sport looks great on their social media sites and attracts a lot more parents.

I know parents who have kids in top academic schools in london and they still have tutors, and schools know this. I would be naive to put responsibility of my children’s education solely on school.

All I want is for my kids to not be put off by school team sport because it’s too aggressive. Just for the record they are also part of a local sports club where they play matches etc. this is a much nicer environment, competitive but playing nicely, it’s run by volunteers.

OP posts:
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