What GCSE options for Classics degree?

[BeanCounterBabe]

And is it even feasible for someone at non selective state school?

DD is at state school. It's our local one and used to be a sink school, just achieved Ofsted Good and we are very happy with it. DD recently diagnosed dyslexic but as expected progress for grade 7+ at GCSE (only lower is maths at Grade 6). Absolutely loves ancient history and mythology, particularly Greek. Starting to excel in art as well. Pretty decent at French but hates it.

I'm assuming Art, History, RE and French would be good options? Is it a no go if no latin before uni? DD has wanted to study history at uni for years but when I told her a whole degree subject exists for ancient Roman/Greek culture she got a little bit excited. Me and DH are ex poly graduates in vocational subjects so this is not a world we know about.

Hi :) I studied Classics and attended a non-selective state school- don’t want to post too many personal details on here but I am happy to chat about my uni via PM if you have any specific questions.

There are lots of unis that offer Classics (if you want to learn a language) or Classical studies (if you don’t) without having done any prior Latin or Greek. I wouldn’t worry too much about GCSE subjects, although I agree history and a language are both a good base. It’s mostly about following your own interests and reading widely.

I also attended a JACT Latin summer camp when I was a year or so older than your daughter and would really recommend it if she’s interested- I believe there are grants available if costs are a prohibitive factor.

Many university Classics courses don’t require either Latin or Greek A’level but would want to see evidence of aptitude and interest in languages. Also worth looking at Classical Studies or Ancient History and Archeology courses as they don’t require the study of Latin or Greek. She’s very young to be deciding on University course now though. Lots of time to change her mind so I’d encourage a broad spread of subjects that interest her and the core ones (English, maths, science and a language) regardless to keep her options open.

Hi OP, my dd applied for classical civilisation at uni (along with English, which is what she did in the end).

It's not classics, but it did involve (at Warwick uni at least) learning Latin or Greek ab initio.

There was no specific A level subject requirement tho the tendency was for students to be taking humanities or MFL. DD took French, geography and Eng lit.

There were people at the offer day who had applied to do Classics and they were all doing A level Latin. There were not very many of them! However other unis may well offer classics with the languages ab initio.

Agree that GCSEs dont really matter as long as she has a decent range. History and MFL will always be good.

If she hates French btw then that's not a great A level choice tbh, so that may rule out classics ab initio, as I would expect that even if they don't ask for Latin A level, they would ask for a language A level. Sounds as tjo class civ might be more up her street. But yy it's way early for that debate tbh.

I went to a non selective state school up to GCSE, then a selective state sixth form.

I did classics at A Level and then Classical Civilisations BA and then MA in Ancient Visual and Material Culture.

At GCSE level I didn't know I wanted to do a classics degree. I did history, geography and drama as my options.

I was very unusual on my degree in that I had mostly sciences for A Level. Alongside classics I did Biology, Geography and AS Applied Maths....

Never did Latin before uni. My course didn't require it and you could do either Latin or Greek in the first year. Never did it again after that. I was much more interested in the art and architecture side of things.

Happy to answer more questions if you have them.

Absolutely no problem doing Classics at uni (even Oxbridge) without any prior study of Latin and Greek. But there are distance learning options as well if she'd like to try it: eg

www.dl.cambridgescp.com/tutored-courses

www.conted.ox.ac.uk/about/ancient-greek-language-courses

She might like to think about Archaeology as well as a possible degree subject, or Ancient History rather than Classics per se. She has plenty of time to firm up her interests.

Once she gets to the work experience age maybe she could see if a museum near you would take her?

History and MFL very good - Art or Drama could also work well, for a cultural perspective.

This is all reassuring thank you. I think she should stay with French at least until GCSE stage. Looks like lots of other courses that can provide study of the ancient world if traditional classics isn't for her. My parents were not able to offer any guidance to me so I really want to help my kids a bit more.

Many thanks.

Oh I did do French at GCSE but a language was compulsory then (not sure it is now)

Do you have any local ish sixth firm college for A Levels, they often offer a far bigger range of subjects. Or are you in a grammar school area? If that might be an option for a levels she maybe able to pick up Latin gcse alongside classics a level.

But for now history and a language gcse are her best bets I would think.

Hey @BeanCounterBabe I take back some of what I said- yes even tho unis like Warwick and Brum may like you to have Latin A level, they will accept another language A level or even a good GCSE language grade for straight classics. Might be tough tho if you were up against ppl with A level Latin.

I did classics A level and then went on to do theology. There is a lot of cross over between the two subjects.

I'd recommend getting a really good foundation in English literature and Language as you mainly study classical texts to start off.

Classics will usually require some proficiency in an ancient language. I think you are best served by having Latin A level or very strong MFLs. Warwick and Birmingham are top universities. I would look closely at what the universities want. But disliking languages isn’t great. I have to say the only people I know with this degree have been ridiculously bright and all state educated!

I will add I went to Warwick. Neither me or any of my course mates had a language at A Level. This was a while ago though.

Most of my friends had history, English, humanities type A Level

Oxford takes students without either Greek or Latin (used to be on the strength of 'language aptitude' tested by an exam - not sure now. I studied a joint honours Classics degree at Oxford from a non-selective state school - I did have the A-Level in Latin, but actually it disadvantaged me as I'd done it on far fewer lessons and with less teacher input than those from private schools.

I'd have been better starting from scratch rather than having to work with those who'd done Latin at prep etc. So yes, definitely doable from scratch at Uni! Classics is great. I had English and History as my other two A-Levels - fairly standard. Good luck to her!

Oxford have Classics 1 and Classics 2. Classics 2 does language modules to catch up. Classics 1 you must have A level Latin. So you need Latin or Greek A Level for 1. For 2, you catch up. So two different routes. But the same end with Greats after 4 years.

If you're looking at Classics with language rather than Class Civ or Ancient History, then I would be worried about the hatred of French, tbh, even if she's good at it. It's certainly possible to do Latin and Greek ab initio at university, but it would mean a lot of language work. If you were saying she loved French but couldn't do classical languages at her school, then I'd think go for it. But if she's not keen on MFL, then I think a non-language degree in a classics-related subject might be a better way to go. In which case GCSE options are probably less important, though definitely history I should think.

Garbled message above: Classics 1 is A level Greek or Latin. I cannot see how anyone could truly do Classics who didn’t like MFL either. French is a Latin based language.

Have a look at an. Ancient History degree-virtually identical in content without the pressure on language

And maybe aim for somewhere for 6th form who do classics A level

Classics A level is quite rare. Classical Civilisations is offered more widely. Ancient History also requires some Latin/Greek at some universities. Research would be needed as to where doesn’t. I also think DC don’t realise that university courses are academic. They are not extensions of pastimes or stories. So they do require certain skills and attributes from students.

I would be asking why she wants to do Classics at degree level. What career does she hope to have at the end of it? Most people with classics (or history) degrees end up working in offices.

If she really wants to pursue the field of classics beyond university I imagine languages are fairly essential for studying ancient texts etc. My DC was very interested in Classics and ended up taking Italian alongside her degree (she had already shown an aptitude for languages at GCSE and A level).

If she is really not keen on languages, the alternative may be to choose English literature and History for A level although the syllabus for either may not be ideal for her. RE and Art are a good choice, as would be Philosophy if it is available. It may be worth finding out more about the periods studied for each subject.

Please make sure she has a clear plan beyond university. A Level grades may become really important. After a few years of museum jobs, due to funding cuts, my DC has ended up in teaching, so Maths, English and a science at GCSE were really important. The non-core subject degree meant training in Primary. Others I know have ended up in office jobs, training as accountants or just doing admin. For them, Maths A level was really helpful. With a lack of suitable jobs for Classics graduates, she needs to consider alternatives.

This page discusses the A-levels choice for Classics or Classical Studies. Classical Studies or Ancient History might better to aim for than straight Classics.

If she doesn’t know them already, I recommend Natalie Haynes books and podcasts . She a classist and comedian, and done some great retelling from a feminist perspective which my classics loving daughters think are excellent. A Thousand Ships and Pandora’s Jar would be particularly recommended by them.

Stephen Fry’s Mythos, Heroes and Troy are also excellent. I think they are also available read by him on Audible if she prefers books that way.

Great for fuelling her interest now, and being able to demonstrate a genuine enthusiasm and passion for the subject perused in her own time on her personal statement and at interview is probably as important as her actual A-level choices. I second the PP who said look for work experience or volunteering in a museum if she can.

My nephew did Classics at Manchester recently with no Latin or Greek and no language A level.

Oh I used to hate MFL at school but did Classics at Oxford. I had Latin A level though. Classics is great if you have a logical language brain but don’t like the speaking and listening involved in MFL.

If she doesn’t get the chance to do Latin or Greek at school though it would be a very good idea for her to find a course of some kind to see if she likes it.