What GCSE options for Classics degree?

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And is it even feasible for someone at non selective state school?

DD is at state school. It's our local one and used to be a sink school, just achieved Ofsted Good and we are very happy with it. DD recently diagnosed dyslexic but as expected progress for grade 7+ at GCSE (only lower is maths at Grade 6). Absolutely loves ancient history and mythology, particularly Greek. Starting to excel in art as well. Pretty decent at French but hates it.

I'm assuming Art, History, RE and French would be good options? Is it a no go if no latin before uni? DD has wanted to study history at uni for years but when I told her a whole degree subject exists for ancient Roman/Greek culture she got a little bit excited. Me and DH are ex poly graduates in vocational subjects so this is not a world we know about.

Thanks for all the replies. Really helpful. She wants to teach either primary or secondary (History) which I think she can do with Classics. Ancient history would be a really good option as well. She is fascinated by Greek mythology so that really appeals, allow she loves ancient Egyptian history and mythology. It’s too soon for her to be certain but just wanted to give her the best GCSE options for when she needs to choose in a few years time.

Why not study History then? History teachers need to teach the curriculum.

@Januarysickandtired ancient languages are so sought after for teaching that you get a bursary if you train in them, for secondary - so I think that's Ok. As for the career, I've not found it closes off any more paths than any other Arts degree.

I do work in an office (though it's my own) as a journalist - but that was what I wanted to do anyway!

It doesn’t close off anything much but as the DD in question hates French, learning an ancient language will be a challenge to say the least. Learning an ancient language, like MFL, still takes a lot of effort and graft to learn grammar etc. French is a Latin based language so if you hate it, will you really be able to learn Latin enough to teach it? I think that although she likes the idea of Classics, she might find History more attainable as it won’t have Latin or Greek.

It probably depends why she hates french - if it's the speaking then probably fine - if the grammar it's not. The relentless logic of latin translation (more a logic puzzle really) appeals to one of my daughters because it's a bit like a sudoko - I can see that as it's quite satisfying. If you like languages because it's about communicating, probably not so much!

I agree that learning French and learning Latin are quite different (lots of non-MFL types love Latin - I have a child who loves Latin but hates French). But - if you hate French and you haven't tried Latin, then it's a massive gamble to assume that you'll like learning Latin when you get to university, unless you can find a way to start studying it first to try it out. And a university might be less comfortable giving you a place for straight Classics if you can't demonstrate an aptitude for language learning.

I have a Classics degree and went to a non-selective state school. I'd take a look at those universities that offer a 'catch-up' for those with little or no Latin or Greek. I can vouch for the Cambridge 4 year course being very good.

I wouldn't worry too much about her not liking French. Latin and Greek are very different in the way they are taught - there's no pressure to speak the languages and I found the logical nature of them very appealing.

Also, the language learning is a means to an end - so you can read the texts needed to study literature, history, philosophy etc. So you certainly aren't aiming for idiomatic expressive language in the way you do for an MFL degree.

I think the big question is: does she love literature, history, culture, critical thinking, art history, philosophy? It's a degree for all-rounders. I ended up teaching Primary, which doesn't seem directly relevant, but I've never regretted studying Classics and I use some aspect of it every day.

We have been looking into this since my child was in Y9 (as you might be able to tell from my username 😂).

Many universities now don’t expect you to have an A Level in Latin or Greek - it’s changed rapidly even in the last couple of years and I think it’s a reflection of their keenness to attract a wider range of students. The few universities that do specify having one of those also often offer Classical Civilisation (or Oxford/ Cambridge offer a 4 year degree) where you start learning either/both language from scratch depending on your module choices. Most don’t specify having an MFL A level either - from memory only Durham specified that as a requirement when I was looking last year.

if she is really interested, then look out for author talks, (free) events online ( we watched a fab Moot trial or Alexander the Great by Classics 4 all recently) or summer schools that are on offer - some have widening participation criteria too that might be of help with costs etc. Also look for exhibitions at places like the British Library (Alexander the Great is on now) or British Museum (we went to a Troy one a couple of years ago). Money isn’t endless here so we usually do this sort of thing for Christmas or Birthday presents.

The language might be a means to an end - but it's still a hefty amount of language development to get to that end. I started Greek at university (already had Latin), and, even as a pretty natural linguist, I found that learning the level of Greek needed to read Homer in volume within a couple of years, to then be assessed on a par with kids who'd done it since they were 13, was a pretty hard slog. Not impossible - I did well - but tough. Maybe I'm a bit of a wuss, or maybe the course content has changed in the last couple of decades, but personally I would feel quite daunted by embarking on something similar if I had no Latin (and no knowledge of whether I'd actually enjoy learning an ancient language), and no recent experience of modern language learning either. Maybe OP's DD should try the Latin summer school as soon as that's possible, to at least get a feel for whether she'd enjoy it? Or maybe there are more course options now for ab initio students, with less language/reading.

DD is taking Classics at A level. She doesn't even have a language at GCSE (despite having 12 of them), she's at a lower ranking state school. She has been told a language won't be necessary if she wants to carry on at degree level, although she is actually considering History or Liberal Arts, not Classics.

That's interesting, so is 'Classics' at A level different from Classical Civilisation? Is it like Class Civ but with language? When I did Class Civ it was all history/culture, and literature in translation only.

It's Classical Civilisation, but it's part literature and part ancient history. Timetabled as "Classics" Only translations are used, as few state schools do ancient languages.

@sparklybag I agree. Also I really don’t agree with others that, when Dc hates French, it won’t have consequences for Latin. It will. It’s attitude and skill that will cause issues. Maybe not much speaking in Latin but it still requires learning language structure and grammar and reading. That’s tough and needs effort.

Well, it depends very much WHY she doesn’t like French.
If she doesn’t like French because she doesn’t like the slog of language learning, sure.
However it might be for similar reasons as me and as I have said below I am someone that hated French, loved ancient languages and did Classics at university very successfully. It wasn’t the slog I didn’t like, it was the listening and speaking and the way the content was all banal trivia about teenagers going to the cinema because that was what people thought school children were interested in. Whereas Latin was basically solving logic problems which unlocked an entire different fascinating world and mindset. She has already shown she is fascinated by the ancient world.
I also think both French and Latin being Romance languages is a complete red herring. In my experience, having learned 2 ancient and 5 modern languages the language family has very little to do with how much you enjoy them.

She really should try a Latin summer school or other course if it is at all possible though.

You are older, quite frankly, @TheCountessofFitzdotterel and it’s very common these days for Dc not to like MFL because it’s too hard. if you are a linguist with 5 languages and 2 ancient languages you are clearly not a 13 year old that hates French. Almost certainly the only MFL they have ever been asked to learn. You cannot learn MFL or an ancient language without rote learning and effort. Dc run away from it. You only have to look at A level MFL numbers to see the decline: it’s hard. What you can learn is obviously due to your talent. I’ve rarely seen a Dc who hates MFL suddenly develop talent and able to learn an ancient language to a high level. Everyone I know who has done this is very clever and puts the effort in! They might like puzzles but all languages are puzzles to many! I think Latin might suit logical people but hating a MFL is a poor start.

Plenty of words in French and English have a Latin base. So working at French vocabulary helps with Latin. As indeed greater vocabulary in English too. They have links. Latin is not a separate entity.

I'm with @TheCountessofFitzdotterel on this. There are so many reasons why you might hate an MFL that have nothing to do with your aptitude for latin - these of course include dull teaching, having to constantly talk about your fake hobbies and shyness in speaking- which won't be affected with Latin (unless the teacher for this is also poor). I have two DDs doing latin gcse - they did not enjoy school French but are doing pretty well in Latin (they both actually speak relatively decent conversational Spanish but this did not make them love school MFL teaching either) - there's so much more to this than 'if you don't like learning one romance language in school you won't like latin'.

‘if you are a linguist with 5 languages and 2 ancient languages you are clearly not a 13 year old that hates French.’

Yes but I was! I am living proof that it’s totally wrong to say people who hate French will struggle with Latin.

But what we are probably all agreed on is that the best way op’s daughter to find out is to try….

I would highly recommend the JACT summer schools. My DD went to a big standard comp but was keen to learn Latin so we found her a tutor. She didn't sit any exams but she went to the Latin summer school after GCSEs. She really enjoyed it & ended up taking Latin A level.
For career options, I know plenty of former classicists- accounting, banking,law, marketing, publishing, entrepreneurs etc etc. Its not just about teaching and museums!

My DD is doing Classics a level at an 80% non selective state school.

So there are schools that offer it if she's open to moving school at a level.

Is that class civ tho? Seems clear she would enjoy that; the question is rather, hatung French, would she actually enjoy learning Latin?

Agree with suggestions to sample learning Latin ir Greek before taking either at uni. I did A level Greek (ffs) and that definitely convinced me not to take it at uni! Spent more time on it than on my other two put together!