SW London Private & Grammar: applying for year 7 in 2023

[QuiteAJourney]

Following up from
www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4716365-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-iii?page=40

Sharing the journey

@Running247 we received it as well. Would not read to much into it though, it was probably sent to all person in second round..

I agree, seems a bit mean to then get a no!

I meant to quote this

Seems a bit mean to then get a no!

How long is a piece of string?

Depends on which grammar schools are you thinking of. How many competitions How good ur DCs ability currently. I would say in general London grammars are super competitive. Applicant to Pan ratios is range from 30:1 to 6:1

PreplexJ I'm just asking what you did, if you can share.

The grammar we are looking at has 5 applicants per place. DS is top quartile in non selective school. He is currently year 5 and I am wondering if we need to start in Feb / March.

@MrPickles73 our DD start the process from the start of year 5. Firstly practice vocab and VR and after Easter term more focus on practice papers. (only VR and NVR and English) no Maths at all. About 1-2 hour per day since May until Summer months doing a bit more after our summer holidays.

Then from end of September start catching up maths and doing a lot of standard papers and CW for private exams. A lot of Atom learning practices (which DD does enjoy).

I would say majority of the pupils apply for grammar school places in London are top set from non selective state primary (inside or outside London).

As I said what individual parents did is not much relevant to your DC, each grammars has different exam formats and depends on the competition level it is hard to generalise.

Wow PreplexJ 1-2 hours per day is quite something! How many applicants per place for your grammar school?

30:1

PreplexJ wowzer. How many schools did you apply to?

So we put our son into a group tutoring class that ran from Sep - Aug year 5. It was one 3 hour class a week during term time with some homework. Maybe 2 hours a week. So one evening plus some of a weekend morning doing homework.

Once the class finished, we tutored ourselves/used Atom from Aug up to exams in Sep/Dec. We had sep grammar exams, so during the 4 week august hols he did 2 - 3 hours a day. Once back at school sep- dec he did probably one weekend morning.

Our son is at state school, with very little homework and work also fell back during covid. He is one of the top in the class so isn't really challenged by some of the work in class esp in maths, the work is completely different from 11+ in terms of speed and complexity (though it is largely based on the syllabus studied). He also isn't really an independent grafter and can work slowly and lack focus/accuracy. So he definitely needed the tutoring to bring his work up to the standard required for 11+. Though he would not have said he loves revising, I think he actually enjoyed a lot of the process. He has gained in confidence with his work and liked the more challenging maths work and essay writing.

With this level of revising, for a child who has usually been achieving 'greater depth' at school with no extra work, he has got through to interview at some schools but not all and he passed though the Sutton grammar 2 stages but didn't pass through the first tiffin exam.

I think it depends on the child and how fast they learn. Some kids prep from year 4.

@PreplexJ 2 grammar and 6 privates

Thanks @SamPoodle123 and @PreplexJ. Are you able to share your reasons for thinking the school is so important? I am interested in people's pros.

secondaryquandries it sounds as though your son did very well! Congratulations!
You raise some good points her re educational background. I would say because I was working from home during COVID our son did not really lose any ground. English we did 7.30-8.30am before I started work and maths he could do on his own. The school set work and in fact he had a bit of a breakthrough with English so that was good.
He is now at a private school, but they do not prep for 11+ so we need to organise that ourselves if we plan to go for it. However he does have a longer school day and I would say excluding sports he has about an hour extra of lessons per day compared to his old primary.
I would have thought if you need to start tutoring in Year 4 then its too high a target. A friend of mine her son is struggling to keep up at grammar school and now she feels he should be elsewhere. Another friend is a teacher at grammar school and she said some of them are heavily tutored but then struggle.

PreplexJ gosh well done - that is alot to do!

We have only applied for 1 private senior school for DS1. We are not in London so there is not so much of a scrum for a place. But all the work and scholarship applications and practice has been exhausting. I can't imagine 8 schools!

PreplexJ out of interest how many offers did your child get and were you pleased in the end?!

@MrPickles73 Just to balance things out, 1-2 hours a day is (I think) up the extreme upper end of the preparation spectrum. I know plenty of people who've got into top grammar and selective secondaries without anything like that amount of prep. Most people I know tend to do 1-2 hour extra work A WEEK (not a day!) during Y5, and then double that over the summer holidays (with full breaks for actual vacation, obviously).
It is repeatedly said on here, but if you have to do really extreme levels of prep to get your DC into a top school, there's a chance they will struggle when they're there.
I think most parents know - deep down - what a sensible (and fair on the child) level of prep is. My advice would be to listen to your instincts, and also be really honest without yourself about your DC. If you think they'd thrive at a grammar / selective secondary, do the amount of work that you think is rational and sensible for a 10 / 11 year old child.

@MrPickles73 think outside London better to ask these questions on a separate thread? This year no one know the results yet until Feb or March (for state)

@LondonMum20222

“1-2 hours a day is (I think) up the extreme upper end of the preparation spectrum”
This would be my limit I have to say.

"I know plenty of people who've got into top grammar and selective secondaries without anything like that amount of prep. Most people I know tend to do 1-2 hour extra work A WEEK (not a day!)"

I have to disagree, first hand information I saw many students prep last year do more than this! (both prep and state school)

PreplexJ apologies - good idea - I just realised this thread is London specific!

LondonMum20222 thankyou, I was starting to hyperventilate at the thought of 1-2 hours per day. I was thinking 1-2 hours per week. I agree that for my family if we need to do practice 1-2 hours per day for a year in advance then the grammar school is probably not for us. There's no way I / we could keep that pace up for more than a week nevermind a year!

PreplexJ our kids have a long school day and including bus journey leave at 7.25am and return at 7pm. So the thought of squeezing in 1-2 hours of work per day just hasn't got any joy. Weekends both are county sports players and we have another hobby so they have a spare half a day at best!
I thought I was bad but I would be honestly shocked if someone is doing more than 1-2 hours per day with a 9 year old!

@MrPickles73 as a stated earlier every DCs situation is different. You compared other parents experience with your DCs has little relevance esp you are not in London (it is compere different game).

Our DD attendds local state primary which only 8 mins walk away and the school life is not challenging and not relevant at all. So we managed to have 1-2 hours extra practice time for her to compensate. (most of time spent is doing practice papers.)

Whereas in Prep school for year 5 I know students is actually doing exam prep in school time of course some parents will say doing more is extreme..

I would agree that few are doing only one hour a week prep - 10 min a day in the months leading up to London grammar exams.

Though it does depend on what you count-does reading count as prep? How much school homework is there etc. My son's school homework in year 5 probably amounted to 20mins a week plus a suggestion to read something. Whereas some prep and even state schools may be giving half an hour a day-3 hours a week. Or the school day may be an hour longer, with 11+prep built in - 5 hours a week Etc.
Some people may also say they do 1 hour prep, but mean that we only pay for one hour tutoring. But do homework etc on top of that.

@MrPickles73 I’ve put on a previous thread in this series what I did for both dds. Though I think some people didn’t believe me! Anyway, about an hour a week of home preparation in Y5, building up with a bit more over the summer and some Atom during the week as well as the weekly session in the autumn term, plus a couple of mock exams. Started a bit earlier for dd who was in lockdown during Y4, as needed to keep her busy (so got her to do online maths games etc, beyond what school asked for).

They carried on with music, dance, sport, play dates etc as usual. They were both offered our local super selective grammar and some of the sought-after schools on this thread.

@secondaryquandries "I think he actually enjoyed a lot of the process. He has gained in confidence with his work and liked the more challenging maths work and essay writing."

Hear hear , on reflection I think this is one of the few positive thing we gain during the process..

And DD did enjoy solving maths puzzle with me together which is a nice bonding time in addition to skiing trips Disneylands etc