How pressured / full on is QE boys?

[poobaloo]

Hi all,
My sister is looking at her options for her DS and is considering QE. She lives in Walthamstow so not close but there is a coach apparently.
Her DS is really bright, but she's not sure if a longish commute to a full on school would be a good idea. Her DS is in yr4 so she's thinking ahead re tutoring etc already.
Any feedback would be helpful, thanks.

Well...this is just one boy, but my 16 year old DS's best mate is generally regarded as the cleverest kid in his very academic North London private school year. Teachers have said he could sit A-level maths and physics now (they are GCSE year) and likely would get an A*, he's a natural at languages, does equations for fun etc...you get the picture.

He went to QE boys for year 7 (and maybe part of 8 I think) and absolutely loathed every minute of it. Found the levels of homework and overall pressure immense - and this is a kid who excels at pretty much everything he does and loves schoolwork. It's just his experience but it was striking to me...however academic a child is, you only get one childhood - and personally I think it's better to go for a more 'well rounded' school environment rather than one that seems intensely results driven.

Oh wow @cafepacifica that sounds awful! My DN would also have to do the commute on top of the heavy workload. He is super bright, but that sounds brutal.

A more usual option would be Latymer, and I know from friends who've been through that school that it's not pushy at all.

I think QE has a certain kudos that my sister is drawn to, but the price sounds quite heavy...

There might be parents come along who feel differently about QE of course - this was just the experience of DS’ friend.

Other options for your DN could be Latymer as you say or Dame Alice Owen (not sure about catchment though). Alternatively, if they are going down the tutoring route and qualify financially, it’s definitely worth looking at bursaries in schools like Highgate, City or Westminster…x

It’s intense!!!!

DS now in yr2 Uni sent to QE boys. If your DS is incredibly bright, relaxed, doesn't feel pressure & is a chilled sort of character, QE boys can provide one of the most rounded, stimulating & highest standards of secondary education available. He will develop a work ethic, study skills and attitude to learning that will stay with him for life.

If your DS needs to be tutored for a year or more on Maths & English to achieve a score to get into the school, then he may well not have the natural academic ability needed to keep up with the fast pace of learning, leading to stress & unhappiness.

DS had 7 very happy years at QE. An amazing education with fantastic opportunities & a great bunch of mates.

Should say, went to QE, not sent. Which was probably part of the success, it was his choice.

@Braveheart35 isn't tutoring the norm though? Certainly all the kids I've known who've gone to grammar have been tutored. Would a boy who's not been tutored have a chance of getting in?

Anybody going through the North London 11 plus, would agree there is 'tutoring', involving a familiarisation with the exam papers, a few months before the exam and a level of tutoring, many years before, of such intensity that the natural academic ability of the child can be skewed.

As an additional point, I would suggest your sister goes to the open day for the school and speaks to parents with boys actually at the school. We very nearly declined a place at the school due to negative opinions often expressed about the ethos of the school, from people who had no direct experience of the school.

I also feel, a long & tiring school journey, adds nothing to a teenagers life. I doubt any school would be worth the journey from Barnet to Walthamstow, on a daily basis. Just because there is coach, doesn't mean it's appropriate. We live within a 15 min walk to QE, he had local friends from the school & would be home by 4.

I'm amazed to hear parents say 1 year tutor is not required for QE. That may work 10 years ago but nowadays if you look at QEs one round exam a lot of mechanical practice and training is essential to pass.....

And a lot of parents were put off because of the QE pressurised culture.

Any child who is put through many years of 'training' to just pass, to get into the school, is likely to have quite a stressful time there. Success & happiness at QE, I'm my experience, are largely down to a very high level of natural academic ability & a personality that relishes the challenge of academic pressure (or ignores it) rather than finds it stressful.

Then a lot of very high level of natural academic ability boys probably missed QE due to not enough practice in recent years unfortunately..

My DN will most definitely be tutored as my sister will plan on him applying to Latymer at the very least. And it's commonplace for tutoring to start at the beginning of year 5.
I guess it's a vicious cycle isn't it? If everyone is tutored, even those that are naturally super bright would be at a disadvantage against those that are super bright and tutored. So they will get tutored. And so it continues.
We didn't go down the grammar route at all as it didn't suit my children. Much less stress!

I have 2 sons - one finished at QE last year, the other is at a local boys school.

My son did 1 hour a week with a tutor for a year plus 11+ books every week at home. His classmates were incredulous when they found out how little they had done. There are some tiger mums prepping their kids out there. I sometimes think they are out there trying to put other people off applying.

If your nephew is naturally bright & curious, doesn't get stressed out by tests or not being top of the class (because he won't be), the opportunities offered by QE are amazing. The teachers are very inspiring and the facilities are amazing.

It wasn't appropriate for my younger son (he's dyslexic), Her's really happy at his school but it isn't a patch on QE. We have tutoring for my son while he's at school, which we never did for my other son.

I think they grow up very quickly and a commute that was difficult at 12 is second nature by 13. And 45 mins chatting to your friends and playing with your phone on the bus isn't the same as being crammed in a commuter train.

Perhaps I should give more fresh info (not parents with kids applied for QE years ago) in the QE entrance exam.

I knew a few friends DS sat the exam in recent years:

Level of difficulty - about same level every year
Number of questions given exam time - increase every year
Number of applicants - increase every year
Minimum pass mark - increase every year

Parents can interpret what that mean in terms of tutoring practice vs natural academic ability for the intake students.

Sure, there are a lot of bright kids who don't get in. But from the boys I met, I would say every single one I met was super-smart.

To give you an idea maybe my DS experience will help. He sat exams to QE and Latymer. Both results were -just pass ( we found only two years later why - ASD). As result, he got a place at part selective school ( through language test). CAT test in September of year 7 showed results 125, reading level 16+. DC is one of the top pupils and his secondary school has amazing results in league ( potential score in CAT 130). He practiced at home from middle of year 3 just because primary school was too easy to him, he asked more and swallowed classic books. I did not use strategy of over tutoring, he asked - I bought him. To be in QE or even Latymer your DN will need prepare very well and have CAT 130-140 along with strong mentality. That means SAT KS2 is not enough, even if he can write tests in the beginning of year 5. Of course as mother I still think If my child got a place in grammar, he will be in the right place. To study in the part-selective or ordinary school is not end of the life but give less opportunity talented children. Money and again money helped children to get the place at grammar. Gifted child is not valued anymore. Government together with Department of Education must take actions to help talented children. Method of 11+ is out of date and based on financial abilities of parents.

I've known a few parents with DC at QE over the years and they all say it depends on what your definition of pressured is as to whether the school will be suitable for your DC/you. Ime it is less about being 'super brjght'(although obviously all QE students will be intelligent) than work ethic/attitude.

If (as I do) you expect your DC to be pushed to be their absolute best, with lots of hours of prep and a culture of strong work ethic and very high expectations, the school will be for you.

If your DC does not have a strong work ethic and/or you are not willing to enforce lots of home study, I would look elsewhere.

@Stackss we it wouldn't work for me or my kids that's for sure. But my DS and DN are a different story. I'll show her this thread and see what she thinks.

It depends what you call tutoring. Our son got in last year. We did past papers at home. I plugged all gaps identified in maths and English (teachers at primary school had shocking grammar and occasionally shaky maths too). We did allow time and money for subjects not offered at primary school such as classics, chess, French, music, certain sports etc. None of them were needed to get in, but now make him feel confident at school.

In terms of pressure, there is a LOT of homework. 2-3 hours a day. But most boys who go there are brimming with energy and ideas. They often have a plan and are already planning A-levels and universities in Year 7! Our son has joined tons of clubs (too many for my liking). Some of the homework is for the clubs or for various school initiatives/competitions, so we are learning that we don't need to do everything on the list! I will say that I have never seen so many well-behaved, kind and friendly little boys. We have another son in a private school and the children there are very different. So far, QE has matched our (very high) expectations.

QE is by far the best grammar school for boys! Have faith in your child and don’t listen to others who can’t even get in!

I'd forgotten about this thread!
@FlawlessSquid it's my sister that's considering QE not me. It's definitely not the right environment for my DCs and yes they most probably would not get in anyway!

It sounds like it suits a very specific type of child. My sis lives in Walthamstow so her DS would also have a lengthy commute by coach on top of the 2-3 hours of homework. How would that work with after school clubs and clubs that they attend outside school?

@poobaloo that’s down to family choices to make the logistic work. But it’s a fab school. I wouldn’t be surprised average if the school’s score of CAT4 to be around 135, so def not for everyone.

I would hazard a guess that all the children are tutored and will continue to be tutored. To say otherwise is not being truthful.

It would be good if parents stopped this practice because all it breeds us more and more pressure. If you don’t tutor your child will be at a disadvantage no matter how “naturally bright” and genius they are.

How much tutoring did your DS have to get into the school?

For these type of schools, tutor would not be able to send a child that not actually capable in. The raw materials have to be there.