Page 5 | How pressured / full on is QE boys?

poobaloo · 2023-01-05T11:01:18+00:00

Hi all, My sister is looking at her options for her DS and is considering QE. She lives in Walthamstow so not close but there is a coach apparently. Her DS is really bright, but she's not sure if a longish commute to a full on school would be a good idea. Her DS is in yr4 so she's thinking ahead re tutoring etc already. Any feedback would be helpful, thanks.

justanotherdaduser · 10/10/2023 21:12

PreplexJ · 10/10/2023 20:52

Angrist is beating the drum all the time.

Yes I believe most of the wanted QE parents won't care, but it doesn't mean no discussion or conversation to question the rational? Like you have ur reason with preception and I counter with citations?

"EF: You’ve looked at the question of how much peers matter. Many parents obviously seek schools where they believe their children will have higher-quality peers, whatever they may mean by that term. You and your co-authors have looked at Boston and New York City selective public schools, and you concluded that peer effects don’t seem to matter much. Why is that?
Angrist: I’m always beating that drum. I think people are easily fooled by peer effects. Parag, Atila Abdulkadiroglu, and I call it “the elite illusion.” We made that the title of a paper. I think it’s a pervasive phenomenon. You look at the Boston Latin School, or if you live in Northern Virginia, there’s Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology. And in New York, you have Brooklyn Tech and Bronx Science and Stuyvesant.
And so people say, “Look at those awesome children, look how well they did.” Well, they wouldn’t get into the selective school if they weren’t awesome, but that’s distinct from the question of whether there’s a causal effect. When you actually drill down and do a credible comparison of students who are just above and just below the cutoff, you find out that elite performance is indeed illusory, an artifact of selection. The kids who go to those schools do well because they were already doing well when they got in, but there’s no peer effect from being exposed to higher-achieving peers.
We also have papers where we show that the elite illusion is not just a phenomenon relevant for marginal kids. This is in response to an objection that goes, “If you’re the last kid admitted to Stuyvesant, it’s not good for you because you’re not strong enough.” We can refute that with some of our research designs."

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/05/interview-with-josh-angrist.html

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Fair enough! I have gained from this conversation. Thank you for sharing the paper.

funnyworldaintit · 10/10/2023 21:12

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justanotherdaduser · 10/10/2023 21:17

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It does? As in, you are speaking in some subtle local code that I, presumably a non-local, cannot decipher?

My non-local interpretation is that it's just a case of 'sour grapes'

GobblingGyozas · 10/10/2023 21:30

The subtle code called 'xenophobia'

HighRopes · 10/10/2023 21:34

@justanotherdaduser I feel
your Harvard quota comparison is probably accurate - and it doesn’t reflect well on the other poster. Especially combined with the nasty implication about your English comprehension, which is clearly uncalled for. Perhaps best to ignore?

justanotherdaduser · 10/10/2023 21:41

HighRopes · 10/10/2023 21:34

@justanotherdaduser I feel
your Harvard quota comparison is probably accurate - and it doesn’t reflect well on the other poster. Especially combined with the nasty implication about your English comprehension, which is clearly uncalled for. Perhaps best to ignore?

Thank you, yes, agreed. Should have stopped earlier.

PreplexJ · 10/10/2023 21:42

I think there is a distinction between university admission vs 11+ selective exam.

11+ exam is a pure voluntary process and certain demographic does has higher tendency to put forward to apply than the other. It is a two way selection process.

University admission is more universal applicable to much wider population. There are clear distinction between the two processes. And as a result you won't observed such high concentration phenomenon you will observe in some secondary schools.

Trubebuttrue · 10/10/2023 21:48

Some parents might believe that the slight variation between these schools could really impact their child's future success. It's like a never-ending competition to be the best, but honestly, it's just a rat race.

Trubebuttrue · 11/10/2023 13:00

Lexus1979 · 25/09/2023 09:42

Thanks PreplexJ , Do you have an DS at wilson or QE to share your experiences

Edited

I have seen you on elevenplusexams forum too, I thought you had made up your mind for a top indie ;) are top grammars now producing tech+mba? ;)

quoting your comment from the other forum for reference! am just curious!

"After speaking to a lot of parents and readiong forums, we are100% commited to putting our DS in a top Indie.

The extra money spent vsthe marginal benefit might not make complete mathematical sense. But the marginal benefit is crucial.

ONe point which many parents made. Indies are way better in gettign the leadership qualities out of individuals. For a total all round development, the Indies are very good in producing an all rounder as opposed to just a pure academic smart individual. ( lets call it Tech + MBA at the indie)"

PreplexJ · 11/10/2023 13:05

I think the particular username has been switching his mind with 100% commitment to private or grammar depends on the point in time what offers got and hasn't got.

rohithimself · 26/10/2023 07:42

My son got a good QE score and am trying to find how people feel about it, and came across this thread. Some good points here.
We have been in the UK before till 2019 , and came back to the UK in end of may this year. I was the primary tutor for my kid, with a revision course done in August from professionals. Still, if I look at all the things we did, we probably spent close to £1000 in books and online exams and mocks, so definitely a financial burden for most.
That the boy did it in 4 months makes me think he may have what it takes? He has autism, which does not advantage or disadvantage him in his studies. Yes, can have meltdowns if things that were planned do not happen. Back in India he was around 5th on all subjects in a class of 30. From my personal assessment English literature can be a problem, when it comes to identifying subtexts.
My wife thinks he will flourish, and I am finding it hard to picture him enjoying in a school that has no no-uniform days in the year and no no-homework weeks in the year.
He loves that it has the swimming pool. He is non-existent at other sports, so at least will have an activity that he can enjoy.
That he will not get a full cross-cultural (or ethnic.. many kids there are British in culture already) education despite coming to the UK bothers us, but not to the extent that we will let go of a great school.
How effectively a school handles bullying is also very important to us, as he is easily susceptible to bullying.
Unstructured as my brain with 5 days to go. We live in Sutton, will move to Barnet- just came here so not difficult for us. He has cleared the Sutton schools too, but none has a swimming pool.

Lexus1979 · 26/10/2023 11:45

Trubebuttrue · 11/10/2023 13:00

I have seen you on elevenplusexams forum too, I thought you had made up your mind for a top indie ;) are top grammars now producing tech+mba? ;)

quoting your comment from the other forum for reference! am just curious!

"After speaking to a lot of parents and readiong forums, we are100% commited to putting our DS in a top Indie.

The extra money spent vsthe marginal benefit might not make complete mathematical sense. But the marginal benefit is crucial.

ONe point which many parents made. Indies are way better in gettign the leadership qualities out of individuals. For a total all round development, the Indies are very good in producing an all rounder as opposed to just a pure academic smart individual. ( lets call it Tech + MBA at the indie)"

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Hello @Trubebuttrue

Things change with time. My son wrote the advanced 10 plus. So we had a year to think and prepare ourselves,. My son wanted to write the grammar school exams after being influenced by his peers. So things change. If you saw my post it was last year. At the end of the day I will go with my DS opinion also. Only this year we happened to visit the open day of Grammar schools as my DS wanted to see the schools. We are still fine putting our DS in indie unless something comparable comes up and my DS wishes to,.. Also the indies have raised their fees by 10% compared to last year ! more than inflation.

Anyways QE is out of the map for us. Will be a close choice between top sutton or top Independent. If the national offer day goes against us, will be top independent. If it goes in our favour, then will take logistics, DD school and few other factors.

I am still of the same fact - I prefer indepdendent, small class size, better facilities, and same education as a good grammar. Key is if i am able to stretch my finances in this inflationary environment.

@Trubebuttrue . When I wrote that post last year, inflation wasnt there, No War ( Russia, ISrael). Now inflation is pinching everyone. things evolve and change with time. I dont expect people to be sarcastic. There mightbe underlying reasons why you take option 2 than your preferred option.

We are also trying an inbetween option - 2 years grammar and trasfer to indie at 13 plus.

This journey is confusing to a lot of people because of unknowns. so please bear and not be sarcastic.

Lexus1979 · 26/10/2023 11:45

rohithimself · 26/10/2023 07:42

My son got a good QE score and am trying to find how people feel about it, and came across this thread. Some good points here.
We have been in the UK before till 2019 , and came back to the UK in end of may this year. I was the primary tutor for my kid, with a revision course done in August from professionals. Still, if I look at all the things we did, we probably spent close to £1000 in books and online exams and mocks, so definitely a financial burden for most.
That the boy did it in 4 months makes me think he may have what it takes? He has autism, which does not advantage or disadvantage him in his studies. Yes, can have meltdowns if things that were planned do not happen. Back in India he was around 5th on all subjects in a class of 30. From my personal assessment English literature can be a problem, when it comes to identifying subtexts.
My wife thinks he will flourish, and I am finding it hard to picture him enjoying in a school that has no no-uniform days in the year and no no-homework weeks in the year.
He loves that it has the swimming pool. He is non-existent at other sports, so at least will have an activity that he can enjoy.
That he will not get a full cross-cultural (or ethnic.. many kids there are British in culture already) education despite coming to the UK bothers us, but not to the extent that we will let go of a great school.
How effectively a school handles bullying is also very important to us, as he is easily susceptible to bullying.
Unstructured as my brain with 5 days to go. We live in Sutton, will move to Barnet- just came here so not difficult for us. He has cleared the Sutton schools too, but none has a swimming pool.

SGS - sutton grammar has a swimming pool

roses2 · 27/10/2023 14:22

One point which many parents made. Indies are way better in getting the leadership qualities out of individuals.

I agree with this. In general (although not all) people who go to independent schools tend to be better at networking, career climbing and leaders. You can certainly see the difference where I work. Of course not all people who went to top London independent schools + Oxford/Cambridge turn out with top careers but it certainly helps.

43% of FTSE 350 CEOs went to private school. 7% of the UK population went to private school
Regardless of how much you dislike the premise of private schooling, it's hard to overlook the above fact and the advantage it provides.

rohithimself · 30/10/2023 15:24

While the thing about independent schools producing more leaders may be true, it may be a result of the kind of demographic they come from. A deeper study may help.

If the data is normalized to find out how many non business non political/ regular tax paying office goers' kids became fortune 500 leaders, it may be more helpful in terms of understanding the impact of private school education.

TimeRider · 30/10/2023 20:39

Just to echo what @rohithimselfsaid. If private schools didn't exist, these 43% would probably still be where they are, owing to their family wealth and influence. This is not to say that top private schools do not deliver more value or "leadership qualities" than academically-selective state schools such as QE (I don't have a definite opinion on that) - but we need to be careful with data interpretation. It'd be interesting to hear views from parents who have a child a a top private and another at a top grammar.

PreplexJ · 30/10/2023 21:12

Echo on "be careful with data interpretation"

If superselective grammar school like QE didn't exist, those kids would probably still be where they are on academic achievement , owing to their own ability and family influence.

It'd be interested to hear experience from parents who get an superselective grammar place but in the end go to a local state school instead.

megapichu11 · 10/04/2025 08:22

Academically it is difficult at first but later it isnt that hard as you get used to it.