Maths A Level - is it true how hard it is?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

Dd is in Year 11 and about to finalise her A level choices. She wants to do Sociology and Psychology and is thinking about Maths for her third choice.

She had some problems with mental health and subsequent school attendance in Year 10. This year has been much better but her attendance is still a bit low. She is very bright and seems to be working at home and catching up with what she's missed.

Her current predicted grade for Maths is a 6 (was a 7 previously) but has been getting 7s in tests. They need a 7 for Maths A Level at their school and she thinks she can achieve this.

I've heard how hard Maths A Level is, its a huge jump from GCSE, it's one of the hardest A levels. Is this true?

I would say she has a very good Maths brain which was evident from when she was young. She just seems to work out things herself and was always top at primary school and given extension work etc.

Does it sound like she would cope?

It's hard. Although Both my DCs say biology is harder.

DC2 got a 6 in GCSE maths and a B in the A Level after lots and lots of very hard work.

DS is a gifted mathematician. He got a 9 in GCSE and A* in Maths and further Maths at A level and is studying the subject at Uni (getting a first in his first year, currently in year 2).

Even he found the jump from GCSE to A Level more difficult that for his other subjects (Comp Science and Physics - also got A*).

Friends in his class who got 7's at GCSE really struggled and none of them got above a grade C. Only those getting 9's got A or above at A Level.

If she's borderline 6/7 I'd strongly recommend against it as she's likely to perform better at another subject and secondly keeping on top of Maths could impact her other grades if she has to put a lot of focus on maths simply to pass it.

I don't think it's a difficult A level if you're good at maths. The only thing I'd say is: can you get your daughter one of the 'target grade 9' GCSE books, or similar, so that she can try and get a better grade at GCSE. As there will probably be lots of content that she doesn't know if she only aims for a grade 7 (she might not be being taught all of it at school).
Also, mechanics is very difficult at A level, but don't let this put her off, it's only a small part of it. I think you have to do mechanics and statistics as extra topics at A level, and with further maths you have a choice between mechanics, statistics and decision maths (2 out of the 3 but the school decides which).
Another option for your daugher is core maths, which is easier than A level maths and designed to help with social sciences so I think it must include a lot of statistics. This only counts as half an A level though so she would still need to find another A level on top of this.

I think that A level maths results that are published are skewed by the fact that generally only students who have a natural aptitude for maths tend to take it at A level.

I would be very hesitant to push a grade 6/7 student into taking maths at A level.

It's a lot of work for anyone, but especially if you're not a "natural." I found it straightforward back in the day, but that's a long time ago.

My DD couldn't wait to drop maths, and then struggled with the mathematical component of her science A-level (Biology). But taking Maths A-level would have doubled the problem instead... partly it depends on whether you'll need a run of top grades for projected uni course.

Agreed about the published stats, which seem to show that Further Maths is easy. (Nope: only those who will get good grades even sit it.)

DD ended up taking Art, Ancient History, Bio, and AS Class Civ. She's now at art school but the Ancient History was life-changing. She talks constantly about the classical world and has a huge range of references!

I have a double first class degree in two science subjects and a PhD, and I still, at the age of 50, have vivid nightmares about A-level maths. It had a massive impact on my mental health and the amount of work I had to do just to scrape a C dragged down my other two grades. Honestly, unless she definitely needs it for her future plans, I would advise choosing something - anything - else.

I did it 20 years ago, my thinking was it gave me options as my other subjects were English and History. What made a big difference was being able to resit Pure 1, I got around 50% the first time I took it and then when I resat my mark was up in the 90s. I don't know if you can still do that. I didn't have to revise for it really it was just an additional year of Maths pulled me up. I got an A at GCSE and worked my arse off to get A at A level. Still a very proud achievement! Could she start off doing 4 with an option to drop one after a year?
I think I did pure 1,2, and 3, statistics, discrete and something else.

As you mention mental health, I would say not... Ds2 worked obsessively to get A* in Maths and Further Maths..
He's now in 4 year of a Msc in Maths and Physics at Durham and his mental health is absolutely shot to pieces. I'm worried sick about him tbh. Unless it's essential for moving forward / or she absolutely loves it, avoid at all costs imo

my friend’s daughter got a 9 in maths this summer and she found maths a level too hard and has just quit it. A 7 is not good enough imho - she’d be better with something else.

I'd also say that if algebra just clicks, A-level should be fine but if GCSE algebra is a problem and the 6/7 prediction is content coverage related rather understanding related find something else.

I'd also consider starting 4 and seeing how maths goes because the step up is early on.

Most students who get a 7 in maths will end up with a C or a D at A-level. If she's looking at better grades in other subjects, this will impact the unis that will offer her places. In general, for most courses, most unis don't care that it's a harder A-level.

I'd also say for the sake of her mental health, it might be better to do something that won't be so much of a challenge for her.

No, you can't- all A-levels are terminal exams now- even if you sit an AS, you can't resit modules towards your final grade. No January exams, either, so it really is much harder now than it was 15-20 years ago.

Ds got a 9 and is doing Maths and FM A level. His predicted grades are high, which is good as it’s half of what he’s doing.

Even with a fair amount of maths at university for economics it looks impressively difficult to me.

Speaking from experience. My DS is very mathematically minded got a 9 in gcse maths a* in alevel maths. His friends who did well in gcse maths (7/8 grades) found it hard.

Sorry, but I think working at grade 6/7 at GCSE is far too low to cope with A level. I know that grade 7 (or old grade B) is the required grade in most schools/colleges, but personally think it's really not good enough, unless there were reasons the student didn't get an A/8 or above such as illness etc. I think a grade 7 student will struggle enormously at A level and probably looking at a D or E grade at the end of it.

There is a huge leap between GCSE and A level.

I was looking at the results published by our local grammar school (Top 75 in the country). Something like 80% of pupils achieved grades 8 or 9 at GCSE, with 20% achieving grade 7, (very few getting anything less than a 7) so a very high achieving school. At A level Maths, only around roughly 10% got A, 20% got A, 20% got B, 20% got C, 20% got D and 10% got E (that's how my memory remembers the figures, so the spread was something like that). So that shows that even getting an 8 or 9 at GCSE was no guarantee of getting A or A at A Level, and that those getting 8 or 9 were very spread among all the grades 2 years later with only around half getting above a C.

If she needs maths for uni and is motivated do it, if not and there is an alternative maybe miss it.

@user1497207191 fwiw (probably not much) a 7 is classed as equal to an old A, a 6 is a B (if 7 is B and 6 is C then not sure what 4 and 5 are).

Still tho I agree broadly, 7 as an absolute minimum to do A level. Ds2 did it with an 8 from 2019 exams and found it hard. He said when he really got something it was so good. He worked hard for a B and his other grades were AA. Maths is good to support other subjects (ds did biology too) but if that’s not a factor maybe look at other options op.

someone in ds’s A level class got 6 at GCSE and really struggled - like, scoring 0 in tests. Not great for confidence and MH.

7 a minimum to do A level maths I mean. And my subject, MFL as it goes. Not so much for some other subjects tho.

I have an Oxbridge degree, a masters and several professional qualifications. Maths A Level is still the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

I'm with you. My accountancy ACA exams were tricky but a walk in the park compared to A level maths. It was really hard.

I wouldn't consider it without being a level 9 at GCSE. Even then, it's still a big step up.

I have friends who took A level maths with A grade GCSEs, and it was a real slog. They generally didn't do too well TBH.

The natural mathematicians generally enjoyed it. I finished the first module in 2 weeks instead of 6 and just carried on at my own pace - but it was modular so that obviously easier (though the speed I took the modules meant I did a lot each round of exams).

I remember Core 3 being pretty hard work, I went into the exam never having got better than a B on a practice paper. But I perform better in exams not worse (which is probably also a consideration?), went on and somehow it just all went okay. I got 97% on that module. It definitely wasn't my hardest A level, that would have been further maths. Probably easiest or 2nd easiest (out of 5). I definitely found biology, physics and further maths harder as I didn't find I really had to remember anything for maths and I'm too lazy for rote learning.

Chemistry mainly just stuck on the first teaching so not too much rote learning there either, hence it vying with maths for the easiest.

If working towards grade 7 at GCSE, then they really shouldn't be thinking about a Maths degree, as they're VERY hard and challenging.

My son got grade 9 at GCSE and A* at A level and currently in his final year at Uni doing a Maths degree. He really regrets taking it. It's hard, very hard, and he really, really struggles to keep up and has to do lots and lots of extra reading/research to try to understand what's going on - we're talking hours and hours of extra work above and beyond the assignments and reading requirements etc. It really stresses him out at how much work he has to do compared with his flat mates who aren't doing Maths! He has a friend from his course who says the same and is also really struggling to understand and do the work. He says the only ones who don't struggle are the "naturals" who just "get it" without having to work hard to get there - without sounding nasty, he jokingly calls them the "geeks" who live and breath Maths!

I found NatSci much harder work than maths a level, and then ACA depends which exam - early ones and anything that was just writing , definitely easier than maths. For me, most of maths was probably easier than the last tax exam and the final corporate reporting one but I suspect that's because I never spent enough time preparing.

@user1497207191 Needing maths for uni doesn’t necessarily mean a maths degree, could be beneficial for many other courses.

I wouldn’t advise anyone to do a maths A level unless they had/were predicted an easy 8 or a 9. More than most other subjects it requires a really high level of natural ability.