St Paul's Girls School Occasional Places

[puzzledmom]

Hi - I'm looking for any insights into what to expect and how to prepare for SPGS occasional places assessment for Year 8? Any advice would be highly appreciated. Thanks

From memory (this was during covid and for a Y9 occasional space) it was a Maths and English paper followed by some interviews with the Science and Modern / Classical Language teachers.

Hi @puzzledmom puzzledmom, I have sent you a PM

If you really want your child to go there, that’s your prerogative, but I would say St Paul’s Girls is not a particularly great environment for a girl in her formative years to be in. Happy to elaborate if you are interested. Uprooting your child’s school life is also a major decision and should not be done just because SPGS may have marginally better performance on league tables. Best of luck

I'm so sorry your daughter didn't like it.

"I would say St Paul’s Girls is not a particularly great environment for a girl in her formative years to be in"

So SPGS should be converted to a University?

Without the champion private school that symbolises academic success and exclusivity status, a lot of west London Prep mums may feel empty and lack of purpose.

And what about the whole prep and tutor supply chain behind it?

You completely misunderstood what I said. The academics may be great at SPGS but pastorally the environment is flawed. From experience, even if the girls get good results, many struggle with mental health especially in the middle and upper years.

Can be a great school for some but certainly not all.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4725627-spgs-actual-offers-and-acceptances?reply=125591269

Paste an old thread to see the counter argument.

"pastorally the environment is flawed"
How can you know before joining the school? Parents won't possibly tell from open day or just rely on MN.

Our decision was with our gut feeling along with other factors but prospective parents simply couldn't tell which school with good pastoral care? On paper all private school says they are good.

Oh I should clarify - I am a mum of a pupil who has gone to the school for six years. All I can say is my daughter’s personal experience - there seems to be perhaps an unusually high level of unhappiness and stress at this school (at least amongst her cohort of 120 or so girls). All teenagers struggle with problems to an extent but the extent of it at SPGS surprised me - lots of academic stress and unhappiness with one’s appearance, feelings of inadequacy, etc. And my daughter was bullied and the school’s response was very poor. I am speaking from firsthand experience - do you have a child at the school and out of genuine interest what makes you so keen to defend it?

Should also add that I don’t mean to be defensive at all and I am very welcome to hearing stories from people who have had a lovely experience! I am so glad if your daughter’s happy there. However it’s quite common for things to seem rosy in Y7 and 8 but it takes some time for the tough environment to have its toll and problems seem to become more visible later on - however, some girls really do pull through and do well here, and I hope your daughter will be one of them.

No, we don't have a child there nor are we sending our DD there, hence I have no interest to defend for this school about pastoral care.

In the offer holder day earlier this year we found the SPGS are extremely academic focus and the LV girls we met are confident and happy. We just couldn't possible tell if the pastoral care is enough.

It is just genuine interest, in general how could possibly the prospective parents find out what the patoral care like from a school before joining? Like you said it took a few years to have the issue to surface? You probably wouldn't have known this when your DD join in year 7?
Also every child is different how can you know if your DD fits the school in the first place.

Yes, that’s correct, when my DD first started attending everything seemed fine and we had no way of knowing that there would be pastoral issues. We were only unpleasantly disappointed later down the line. That’s why sending our children to the right school is such a difficult decision as parents! We want the best for them and it’s hard to know in advance what that is, sometimes.

Mumsnet is great for parents of potential new students to share information but I have found few posts from parents whose daughters have actually gone to the school they are posting about for many years. That’s why I’m sharing my DD’s experience and what she had picked up on about others’, at least in her cohort. Hope this helps!

Thank you for sharing your experience - it always helps to have a balanced view on a school.
PP have raised valid questions, however. I also do believe that it is difficult to predict how good of a fit a school can be for your DD from the get go. Every cohort can be ever so slightly different, and while one year can be a great, supportive, fun, other can have some "bad apples", influences, etc. Also, children change so much from year to year.
The problems mentioned are seen across other schools as well, be it G&L, etc. they just seem "out of proportion" because it is SPGS. It is just a school after all, albeit full of super bright girls.

"That’s why sending our children to the right school is such a difficult decision as parents! We want the best for them and it’s hard to know in advance what that is, sometimes"

True - "wish everyone is striking for something that is actually worth having" - DDs comment on Vanity Fair.

Best of luck to your daughter @laurasparrows

@laurasparrows I am truly sorry for what your dd has gone through! I do hope the issues are resolved and the experience has made your dd a stronger person!

This quote "some girls really do pull through" seems really ominous. I'm really sorry your DD is having such a bad time at SPGS. It's really unfortunate. I hope she's okay and wishing you both the very best.

Hi all, for those with older daughters at SPGS (6th form), do you know approximately how many people leave after GCSE (to go to coed or else) and how many girls come in at that point? Appreciate it might depend from year on year.

Thanks

SPGS is somewhat of marmite school and doesn't suit all young people but the bashing of SPGS has been going on for decades. I was there over 30 years ago and lots of people then said everyone has anxiety issues and eating disorders. I'm not sure there are any more challenges than for girls at other schools.

I was definitely in the bottom quartile academically until O'Level year but never felt under pressure even though I was given extra support by the school - I always felt valued for my individual interests and was very happy.

My view is the school is through their selection process quite good at assessing which girls will flourish. So if offered a place, and your DC would like to go, then perhaps no need to over think it (easier said than done 🙂)

My concerns about the school now are more related to the high fees compared to 30 years ago and how this a barrier to access and narrows the socio-economic mix. I wish all places were needs blind and linked to ability to pay. Using RPI SPGS 1988 Fees today would be £10,500 but they are now in 2023 almost triple that at £30,000.

"My view is the school is through their selection process quite good at assessing which girls will flourish. "

Don't think there is magic formula on this, it is just too generic and not much different to other schools (don't know 30 years ago but at least now).

Except for the high tuition fee is a convenient pre-selection for targeting the customers who would love a jar of luxury marmite.

“Except for the high tuition fee is a convenient pre-selection for targeting the customers who would love a jar of luxury marmite”.

This is not true - there are families who use their life savings, so their dd can attend the school.

I don’t understand why the need for generalisations and sarcasm. You graciously declined a place at the school, but can’t seem to move on for some reason.

"This is not true - there are families who use their life savings, so their dd can attend the school."

I accept this is true, I'm talking about what I think the school is targeting.

How does SPGS' £30,000 compare to other schools? I'm guessing they are lower, but how much lower? If SPGS fees are materially higher, then what are they doing with the extra income compared to other schools?

About 20/25% higher than other girls/coed schools? Good question on the extra income, it is the register charity so accounts are available online.

I've seen their accounts, but really we'd have to look at what they spend per pupil versus other schools to see if it is materially different.

It might not be a perfect analogy, but the five HYPSM uni's also have the largest endowments by a wide margin. I'm not sure.

It seems blatantly obvious that those who are most vociferous in their criticisms of SPGS are those without a child there (and, very likely, those whose child was not offered a place when they applied, whether they claim to have been offered one or not).

Once lunch is taken into account, G&L is actually now more expensive than SPGS.