Downe House unconditional offer

[Cranberrybabymum]

DD received an unconditional offer but the letter mentioned that she could defer it till 13 should she wish to. Is this common? We had our heart set on Wycombe Abbey but unfortunately she wasn’t offered a place and she would like to try again at 13+ even though she will then have to do exams on all the subjects etc plus a much smaller intake. DD isn’t strong in sports but she enjoys swimming and lacrosse. She is in the bottom of upper-quartile at her current school hence the school suggested her trying for WA. I personally wasn’t overly impressed with Downe but DD loved it. We are looking for a boarding school for her. DD is academically capable and is quite musical as she plays two instruments. Any advice? Should we accept the offer now and try WA again at 13? Any other schools to consider?

Well my post that was deleted was literally advising the OP not to bother with WA for that exact reason... it will affect her confidence if she's near the bottom of the year, which based on the info we have been given sounds not unlikely.

Don't shoot the messenger!

I always felt very underwhelmed by Downe House, but so many of my friends and their daughters love it. I think I am mainly underwhelmed because it all looks and feels so boring and non-spectacular. I couldn't imagine being a teenager and being locked away in Cold Ash. DH costs an absolute bomb, and for that kind of fees I would feel more excited by a stately home, parkland, pond and being able to walk somewhere slightly civilised with at least a cafe or McDonalds - a bit of the Hogwarts factor😀But ultimately, if your dd loves it, that would be the most important thing. The teaching and pastoral side is supposed to be excellent - and I personally know several houseparents, and they truly are kind and lovely. The head is also reassuringly kind and experienced. The extra curriculars are endless and varied. The academic outcomes are excellent and the Lacross is fearsomely good. It's supposed to be much less hectic and pastorally more caring than WA. It just lacks the wow factor for me somehow, but loads of people would say that facilities/architecture/location are not that important. We went for co-ed former boys school in the end. More choice and more Hogwarts magic, and we are very happy with the pastoral side.

@NellyBarney I kind of get what you mean. I know a girl who left at 13 for Marlborough and quite a few leave at 16 for coed or city schools.
I have nothing negative to say about the provision for 11-13 group. However if I had to give cons for the upper school it would be:
Lack of flexibility in the GCSE options and they do have to take a lot. It is very very traditionally academic.
Years groups are tiny so can feel a bit squashed once you're a bit older and if you happen to get a group with MH issues, it can start a ripple effect on the others.
Not much celebration for the ones who leave in Y11. Its very much an all through school so the upper sixth gets most of the prom type stuff.
It seems to attract the Chelsea crowd and some girls are very spoilt. Most go to feathers ball etc and tend to know each other from prep.
However, I really think it's brilliant for some kids. It's small and niche but some kids need that and the opportunities it gives are incredible. Esp for lacrosse and music. Unlike a lot of traditional girls schools, they offer DT and other boy type subjects. Their recent work with Radley is also great as it goes beyond just socials.

@Lilgamesh2 I'm glad your vile post was deleted.

Why? are you upset?

There is no rigid connection between 11plus results and overall academic achievement. Op's daughter might well do very well at WA - the vast majority of the girls who miss an offer are still very good academically, it's simply a case of limited spaces, and doing well in standardised tests is a great skill but says little about actual performance in topic related exams. 13plus might well suit OPs daughter, and our prep school head always advised parents to let children sit the 13plus rather than the 11plus as he thought it such valuable prep for GCSEs. (He obviously also had a financial interest in pupils staying on). It's a lot of revising, but having an unconditional offer from DH at least takes the pressure off, so no drama if she misses out on WA again, bit if you all slightly prefer WA, no harm in trying again either.

@Lilgamesh2 not upset at all but it's bothering me that people can go round seeing children as '"dimwits". It's such a horrid phrase and train of thought, it does make me sad and cross that children get labelled at such a young age and to be honest this whole thread depresses me.

@NellyBarney the entry requirements are more than the 11+ there's an interview too but regardless... yes, she might well be a genius and have just had a bad day on the 11+. However, the OP has already stated that she's not at the top of her class at her primary school which I'm assuming is non-selective in addition to being rejected by the school. So she should at least consider the possibility that her daughter will see herself and / or be seen as one of the lowest achieving girls at WA, even if she works really hard and gets in at 13 plus and goes on to get top grades in GCSEs and A levels. Maybe she's fine with that or maybe she thinks her kid will actually be one of the smarter girls at WA, either view is fine of course, but I just wanted her to be aware that being a perfect student and still being seen as a bit rubbish is likely to be damaging. When she could just go to DH and probably still get top grades at A level without feeling inadequate.

OP is free to ignore this view if she wants.

It’s better to be in the middle of the pack than at the bottom. 11+ is a good time for girls to enter secondary, as they mature more quickly than boys. If your daughter likes lacrosse and racket sports, taking the DH place would be ideal. The very long sports kit list will be very expensive.
Going to a school with Brutalist or very modern architecture isn’t what I would choose, but make sure the buildings meet code and are energy efficient. My high school did not meet fire code, so we had drills every week. The mayor’s daughter attended, so exceptions were made. It’s not a good idea!

I think there is a bigger question here with regards to girls and 13+ entry. I do stand to be corrected, but I don’t think there’s a single all girls full boarding school in the U.K. that has a main entry point at 13. They are unanimously 11+. If you are looking at coed 13+ then absolutely it could be the right thing. Wellington, Marlborough, Charterhouse, Stowe - perfect.

But what does a girl get by joining at 13 where the majority of girls have already started at 11? First teams are basically already imbedded. Friendship groups have been formed. At my DDs school their 13+ intake is pretty much dominated by international students.

DH has the biggest 13+ intake out of them all though.

Alternatives are Benenden, Cheltenham Ladies, Rodean and St Mary’s if you are looking for a “name” school.

Some top preps send their girls at 13 top girls’ schools. For example: Look at Godstowe’s destinations list. It’s all about links between the prep and the destination school. So Godstowe have traditionally sent many girls to WA and DH at 13 down the years. Virtually none at 11.

@Cranberrybabymum
I wouldn’t say everyone is amazingly bright at WA, but very many are. DD1 got an unconditional place at DH, (11) but went elsewhere. It was her choice. What we didn’t do was start upping the stress levels by more exams for somewhere more glittering. HW is a very dull place!

I wouldn’t worry too much about her going to DH. It’s a very smart school. Hogwarts “feel” is a load of tosh. You are not buying a fiction book. What you need is excellent teaching snd a happy child. You don’t need McDonalds either. You do need a school with lots to do and a place where DD feels she belongs. So, what she wants should top your wants. Why don’t you ask to visit on a working day and have another look? We did this after DD had an offer from the school she liked and they answered all our questions. We all have them!

@Pipsquiggle St Mary’s Ascot was initially our first choice but we were rejected before filling out the application form because we are Christian, not Catholics even though I explained that the whole family are practicing Christian.

Thanks so much for everyone’s suggestions etc. DH is a good school, apart from the remote rural location, I just couldn’t quite put my finger on why I didn’t like it but yes we should definitely go and visit it again since DD has an offer. DD has decided to stay at her current school till 13 and try WA again as her two best friends got offered.

@Cranberrybabymum really?

I know it's a Catholic school, however, I do know non-Catholics that go there, the most famous one being Lady Louise Windsor but I guess it helps that her grandmother was the Queen.

Is it actually an admissions criteria?

@Pipsquiggle yes it is the admission criteria. We had to prove either the family or DD was a baptised Catholic.

Did you get feedback as to why she didn't get her place at WA? Is that likely to change before 13? Could you have a chat with the admissions tutor to see how far she missed by? It sounds like she's not on the waiting list either.

You know your DD best but I would have thought it would be really tricky for most teenagers to move school at this age into already established cohorts. Her 2 best friends now will have made new friends, there will be different dynamics.

Just seems like you/DD are really pinning all your hopes on WA when there is little to no indication that she would be successful at 13.

I just think it will be easier for your DD to join any senior school at 11, at the beginning, with the rest of her year group and make friends rather than being parachuted in at 13.

Good luck. Glad you are going to visit DH again

I think it is a good idea to visit DH again and to look at other schools where your DD may be happy. I would probably especially look at co-ed boarding schools as well.

With regards to WA, it is a great school but you would have to make sure it is right for your DD, even if you get an offer and sometimes WA tries to make that choice for you.

It is extremely competitive in all areas.

Several girls in year 7 have grade 8 on their instruments (some diplomas I think). In sports, again, some play various sports at a really high level. You can play for the A-team in your primary school and not make any of the teams at WA.

There is a lot of homework and if you aren’t well organised, “get” the concepts quickly and quite driven to keep striving for good grades - and resilient when you do badly- it seems very hard.

having said that, for a very competitive girl who want to play in an extremely challenging orchestra, play high level sports, being stretched academically and is confident enough not to be bothered by any extreme high achievers I cannot think of a better school.

DM me if you want more information.

Amazing isn’t it? That some poor, deprived state school kids do well. 🙄

It is amazing. When it is known that they face many more obstacles than privileged affluent middle class children. Yet overcome those to succeed.

The PP wasn’t saying that children in more deprived areas/schools are inherently weaker academically, but they face higher barriers to success and to overcome those is genuinely much more impressive.

If you’re coming home to a warm, safe house where you have a quiet place to do your homework, where you don’t have to have a part-time job to help your family, where you have parents who have the time to assist you, of course it will be easier to succeed.

If you don’t have those things yet you still succeed? That is SO impressive.

And I have kids at a very normal comp in a very mixed demographic area if that’s relevant at all

A lot can change in two years so take care making any decisions based around existing friendships.

Yup my children are at a comp too - I was privately educated but have been blown away by the teaching, they have to be so good to navigate all the different abilities. I volunteer at state comps doing workshops in my field of industry and blimey some of the children who should be failing due to their home life are just extraordinary, it is so uplifting to see their intelligence and know that now they might have a real chance at getting to the university they deserve now with contextual applications that level the field. I find the resilience and perseverance of children who want to learn at comps amazing, how they move beyond distractions to focus is incredible. Going to make amazing employees who will be snapped up!

Only on MN could a thread like this get so derailed!

OP, I'm amazed - and rather shocked - you have to prove you're a Catholic to St Mary's but then I\m shocked that is the criterion for entry to so many state schools, at least in my part of the world.

I'd just say it'll be very tough for your dd if she tries WA again and is rejected again. However, I'm sure everything will work out whatever path you choose ...

Gosh I think you really need to gently sway your daughter to an alternative to WA. She won't stay best friends with these girls if they're leaving in Sept, and her confidence will be destroyed if she gets rejected again at 13. I don't really know if you're being serious in all honesty.

If she stays at her prep until 13, obviously co Ed opens up. However it’s stress all over again and fewer places at WA. I agree the friends will have moved on with friendships. It’s slightly sad that she thinks she will be ok at WA at 13. Bird in the hand etc…..