Does it matter how many GCSEs you do?

[HappyHappyHappyHappy]

This is a little bit is a daft question and it isn’t a “which school?” question, but yeah, does it matter whether you do 8/9/10?

Asking because looking at secondary schools and one of the differences between the 4 we’re trying to decide between (obviously this will be nowhere near the deciding factor) is the number of GCSEs. Does it matter?

School A - 8 GCSEs, 9 if triple science*

School B - 9 GCSEs regardless because triple science is an option (although restricted)

School C - 9 GCSEs, 10 if triple science*

School D - 8 GCSEs, 9 if triple science*

*triple science is top set/chosen few only

Our Y10 is doing Maths, Eng Lang and Lit, Combined Science 2 (they do offer all 3 but he hates science), Spanish, History, Geography and Business so 9 but 10 if you choose 3 sciences. That's standard round us.

Universities only care about the top 8 regardless of how many you do. One of mine is doing 9, they can do 10 if doing further maths. The other is doing 10, they can do 11 if doing further maths. ( different schools).

8 or 9 is pretty normal here.

My DS and DD school do 8, 9 if they get chosen for triple science.
The catholic school does 9 as standard because they have compulsory RE and they have triple science as an option.

I don’t think it’s anything to really worry about.

I don't think it matters in a technical sense ie it won't hinder their progression in education.

But I do think it is a shame that their education is narrowed so early. Only doing 8 GCSEs when at least 5 of those are maths, science and English doesn't give much choice. I would check what 'choice' children have for the remaining slots - do they have to do a humanity or a MFL eg, or do they really have an open choice.

If DCs are bright I think it's great to be able to follow a broader curriculum.

I'd be more worried about schools that restrict access to triple science to "top set/chosen few only". Exactly how restrictive is this, if your DC is keen on science but perhaps just below the top strand? (Yes, I know you can progress onto A Level with combined science, but ideally you would be able to do triple science if it's offered).

After the usual English language and lit, maths and combined science the schools offer

School A
must take one of
history, geography, French, German or computer science
then have 2 open options

B
Pathway 1 must take language, humanity then get two open options one of which can be triple science (encouraged* for anyone who will get grade 4+ in all the ebacc subjects)
Pathway 2 must take one of history, geography, French or German then get 3 open options one of which can be triple science

C
Pathway 1 must take a language and a humanity then get 2 open options
Pathway 2 must take a language or a humanity then get 3 open options

D
A language or a humanity then 2 open subjects (EBacc is encouraged* for those able to do it)

*not too sure whether this mean encouraged to do or forced to do

We’ve just been looking at Alevel options and they want 8 GCSE with min grade 4, and in some subjects like English / Maths / Science min G6, this is regular sixth form college or stay at comprehensive not selective. So depends on your child’s strengths do they need less subjects to do well or will they enjoy having more choice?

Some university courses also need min grade 6 in English or Maths too as with the removal of AS levels look at GCSE grades to make offers. I know this is long way off for your child but I was surprised the bar was so high.

For context my daughter is at “needs to do better/under performing - ofsted rated ” school and although bright with covid the gap in poorer schools has been evident in the grade predictions this year.

"*not too sure whether this mean encouraged to do or forced to do"

If it's "encouraged" then at the moment that probably does mean the end choice is the child's. Some schools just make it compulsory by having one timetable block that is languages and another that is history/geography - and then there's no way round it.
However you should realise that schools might change their policy, so what there's no guarantee that the same will apply when your child gets to choosing their options.

Great to hear universities only care about the best 8. So looks like nothing to worry about there

@lanthanum thanks for that. Useful to know

@Winter99Mermaid wow! Those seem really high requirements. I’ve just had a look/skim over the sixth forms entry requirements here (fully comprehensive area) after you said that (3 of the schools have a 6th form, one feeds into joint 6th form).

In general it seems to be 5 GCSEs including English and maths at grade 5+, plus, a specific grade usually a 6, in the specific subject(s) to be studied.

Good point well made. This is something I’ve been thinking about a lot. I’m really unsure as to why triple is restricted everywhere. It does seem to be the done thing at the minute though.
I think I’m going to email/ring the schools and ask a few more questions around this.

Tbh it only matters if GCSEs are your final qualification. Much like A-levels don’t matter once you have a degree, and a degree doesn’t matter once you have a masters.

Also, whisper it but there are close to no employers who will check your qualifications, so you can make it up within reason.

All that being said, a broad education is never a bad thing, and if your kids do want to pursue education at higher levels then it’s better they are exposed to more subjects so they can make more informed decisions later down the line.

Independent school here. All do 3 separate sciences and start with 10 GCSEs. 3 year course. No requirement to do langauages or humanities, but probably 2/3 start with a language and pretty much all with a humanity.

Over time, it is tailored to individual. Some who are v good at Maths also take Further Maths and end up with 11 GCSEs.
Many continue with the 10 they started.
Quite a lot drop one they don’t like or aren’t doing so well with and finish with 9.
Tiny number drop 2 and end up with 8.
When they drop, the timetabled time feeds them into sessions with a teacher where they focus further on a particular subject they are doing.

So it is very individually tailored and can be adjusted through the 3 year course. The emphasis is on the fact it’s better to have great grades in fewer subjects than 10/11 at lower grades. Grade Point average is mentioned, and the fact that if you drop a weaker subject, your grade point average will be higher. As they start with 10, there is scope for most to drop something if they want to without it being a problem.

Realise this is pretty different to state schools and the school have the flexibility to be able to tailor the timetables nod staffing like this.

Most students finish with 10 GCSEs I’d say. Probably 20% have 11 and maybe 20% have 9, with maybe 5% having 8. Guessing at these figures. School is selective so that clearly makes a difference.

In practice, the vast majority of kids who want to do triple science are the stronger scientists anyway. DD's school do it as an option, but there were only a couple of kids in her triple science group who didn't do higher tier. If she had been in two minds about choosing to do triple, we would have pushed her to do it just because it would put her with the other more academic kids.

You can do science A-levels from either double science or triple science (although some individual schools may restrict it); a child who is keen but not so strong at science may be better concentrating on really mastering the double science syllabus than flogging through the extra topics, which are not required to tackle the A-level course.

I would be surprised if doing 10 GCSE's didn't 'look better' to universities than 8?

For A Level, it’s standard to have a general entry requirement and then specific entry requirements for the subjects you want to do. Really not great to be wanting to do an A Level in a subject you got a 4 in for GCSE or a 5 either. 6 would be the minimum and in Maths few packets will take someone with less than a 7. Someone with less than a 7 might have below 40% in the exam - that’s 60% of the gCSE course they haven’t properly grasped and not a good start for GCSE.

Persoanlly I think the very rigid approach some schools have where students must have a language, especially when they didn’t even have a choice if which language when they entered the school, plus they must have a humanity is too rigid. It’s often pushed on the able. It leaves very little choice for other things. Not quite so bad if the requirement is one humanity or language.

Worth remembering too that the thing with double or triple science often ends up as a firm if setting. The able are offered triple science. The stronger candidates go into that and have a very different learning experience to the double science groups which have the full ability range. A shame though if people feel they must do triple science in order to get the best learning experience and miss out on another subject they were more interested in.

And it’s very true that schools change their policies about options. Some will be more flexible if you push hard and speak to the right people. Others won’t.

My son started off with 10 but dropped 1 when he changed subjects and then dropped another with timetabling clashes.
We went with better to have 8 good grades then 10 with lower grades.
He got 6/7/8’s in his GCSE’s
as a recruiter, I’m interested in maths and English grades. Want a 5 generally.
if looking for career in engineering, I want them to have done a DT and physics at GCSE.
if a software engineer, I want computer science
if a generic business recruit, I like history (as it normally means they can write)and a lot of my business recruits need to to write reports…

But as a previous poster said, no one really cares when you’ve got Alevels or a Degree.

Go with how the school feels for you and the child- I think that more important

The range of subjects is more important than whether they take nine or ten. Do they have maths, English, science, a humanity, a MFL?

As a science lover it galls me that schools pack the three sciences into two subjects yet force everyone to waste two on English!

Biology is no similar to physics than geography is to history

In practice, the vast majority of kids who want to do triple science are the stronger scientists anyway.

About 45% of DC's bog standard comp take triple science. And a good proportion of those take the foundation papers. I suspect who wants to take science may, in large part, reflect how the school markets it - whether they try to sell it as only for the better scientists or as a genuine choice for all but the weakest.

The flip side of the coin is if you're a student who is good at science but wants to take combined (to enable study of another option; or just because you're not that interested). If you're in a school where the vast majority of the better scientists take triple science, then you may well end up in a position that there aren't enough students to make up a combined science class who are all taking higher level papers. Which potentially makes it harder for those who are taking/capable of higher papers.

Students still study all three sciences, though- and many students don't enjoy science or want to take it further. Whereas everyone will use English in their everyday lives (maybe not lit, but reading and writing).

I say this as a science teacher- I don't think everyone should be forced into triple at the expense of studying something they enjoy.

That said, I would encourage students thinking of science A-levels to do triple if possible, particularly if most others in the class have done triple science. If everyone has done double, it's different, but not doing triple can lead to a lack of confidence for some students, and feeling like everyone is already ahead of them. In some schools you also find that the "top" double group isn't taught right to the top of the syllabus, as most of that group are still only aiming for about a 6, say.

Obviously, it does depend on the school and the student, though.

Overall, I'd prefer 9 or 10 GCSEs where possible, to enable students to keep a breadth of interests!

It offers a broader experience in the same way doing 4/5 A-Levels does. It makes no odds with regard to progressing along the education journey though and access to A-Levels and university.

I personally think 9 is the ideal number with the option to reduce to 8 if struggling. My preference also is for triple science to be an option as it allows enough time to be given to teach the extra content to those who wish to take it.

The schools are telling you how many GCSE subjects fit in to their timetable.
So that you know how wide a subject choice is open to your child.

It doesn't mean that all pupils are required to study (or sit exams) in the entire curriculum of GCSE's on offer.

It's more important to consider what combination of subjects fit the school's timetable at A level.