Does it matter how many GCSEs you do?

[HappyHappyHappyHappy]

This is a little bit is a daft question and it isn’t a “which school?” question, but yeah, does it matter whether you do 8/9/10?

Asking because looking at secondary schools and one of the differences between the 4 we’re trying to decide between (obviously this will be nowhere near the deciding factor) is the number of GCSEs. Does it matter?

School A - 8 GCSEs, 9 if triple science*

School B - 9 GCSEs regardless because triple science is an option (although restricted)

School C - 9 GCSEs, 10 if triple science*

School D - 8 GCSEs, 9 if triple science*

*triple science is top set/chosen few only

It's more important to consider what combination of subjects fit the school's timetable at A level.

I would disagree. There is such a lot of movement after GCSEs with some staying on at school, some moving to other schools or 6th form colleges, some opting for BTEC courses and some leaving to take up apprenticeships that what the A level offering is, isn’t relevant at this stage.

Doing 8, 9 or 10 is all fine, and better to get 8 better marks than 10 lower marks.

It is nice to do more if you can, but it is wise to be realistic about the student's likely outcomes.

We have been looking around secondary schools and immediately discounted the ones which only let kids do EITHER history OR Geography and no requitement for a language. Crazy that they restrict the curriculum so early on ie YR 9 😔 We have put our 1st option as the school which allows up to 10 GCSEs if triple science is chosen and kids do both history and geography + must do 1 language (choice of French or Spanish).

Ok. So it’s looking like it doesn’t matter whether it’s 8, 9 or 10 but 9 seems to be a nice number. The general consensus is that getting higher grades is what’s important with more ‘open’ choices better. Also triple science as an actual option rather than chosen as ‘top set/chosen few’ is the best thing (although we don’t actually have this as an option so going to have to work with what we have and just see the schools policy on being flexible about triple/combined science)

Another question, still science related, not necessarily GCSE level but in general, is it better to have “science” lessons which rotate between the sciences or to have “biology” “chemistry” and “physics” lessons?

Does it really matter? Will it make any difference? Looking at it all the same content is covered and same exams sat.

2 of the schools teach separate subjects at KS3 and 2 teach it as “science” at KS3.

3 teach as separate subjects at GSCE and one teaches as “science” at GCSE.

I don't think it matters whether it is science or biology/phy/chem on the timetable.
Neither makes it more likely to be taught by a specialist in that subject.
They will teach in a logical way, they won't be jumping around every lesson.

I think probably there are more critical things to be considering when picking your school (homework, behaviour, pastoral etc).

(Everything else being equal, other academic questions you could ask: could a linguist do 2 MFLs? What creative subjects do they offer at GCSE)

I agree with you @TeenDivided, it was just something that occurred to me and wondered about in a general sort of way. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I have lots of other specific curriculum questions which only the schools can answer. They concern creative/DT subjects and MFLs and how they are studied at KS3 as well as combinations allowed at KS3.

I don’t know what is going to interest DC or what their future plans will be so want to be getting as much information about specifics from the schools and getting general questions answered by more knowledgeable people on here to be able to make an informed choice which doesn’t create problems later on down the line.

(fwiw, DD was due to do GCSEs 2021.
At her full comp it was:
Standard 9.5 (half was RE short course)
Triple was an extra, if you did RE full course you ended with 9 or 10.

Just to clarify, that should say combinations allowed at GCSE not KS3

9 is now standard at my DC's well regarded state school. A relatively small number do 10 by choice and some do one or two less or do other qualifications instead if 9 is felt to be too much for them. The 10th is usually further maths or there are a few subjects offered as extracurricular activities. One of mine did astronomy and I think Latin and a couple of other subjects are offered as after school clubs too.
The rationale we were given is that, as a PP said, Universities are only interested in the top 8 grades anyway, so better for those planning to go down that path to have strong grades than to spread themselves a bit too thin. And for those looking at college/vocational studies afterwards the main focus is doing as well as possible with the core subjects. They have the same approach to A levels - 3 plus EPQ for all but the super high flyers. It seems to pay off, looking at leavers' destinations.
I know it's not that long ago that lots of schools were offering 12 or even more subjects at GCSE but the curriculum changes have definitely made things a lot more demanding and I'd say it's definitely better to focus on getting the best grades you can across a smaller number of subjects than squeezing in extras that won't influence the next stage much but could bring your overall grades down. 9 seems ideal to me, then if you have one subject you really don't like (English Lit for both my boys) or one exam unexpectedly doesn't go to plan, you're hopefully still left with 8 good ones.

Sorry, one other question.

Looked randomly at curriculum allocations (yes, I’ve done a lot of googling/research today - DC at scout camp so I have the weekend free).

Question is about the hours spent on each of the subjects at GCSE level. I suppose this might have an impact on the number of GCSEs offered.

Is more time spent on the subject better than more GCSEs?

I’m supposing yes, considering what I’ve heard about how demanding/challenging the new GCSEs are (I did 12 and DP did 10 so to us this whole new GCSE layout is completely different)
However, for some more academic people then more subjects are maybe better? - Horses for courses maybe?

I do have a list I’ve made comparing all 4 - yes, I’m mad and crazy and quite happily go off on a tangent -, but just some general examples.

One school has 5 hours per option where as another has 6 hours per option.

One has 12 hours for all sciences where one has 10.

One has 6 hours for English where another has 8.

(I’ve converted everything to hours and over a fortnight as 2 of the schools have 2 weekly timetables and all have different length lessons)

I’ve looked into curriculum allocation/curriculum in general at KS3 for all 4 schools and, although I have questions, know which ones I’m leaning towards. (Among other factors which have been looked into).

Just to clarify some earlier (very valid) comments made. Yes, things such as pastoral, learning support, whether we would get a place, policies on behaviour, uniform etc, transport and many other things have been looked into. Including 2/3 year GCSE - all schools have 2 year GCSE. We started off with a list of 8 schools and have this narrowed down to 4. One will have to go completely. The other 3 will go on the list in some sort of order.

8 or 9 is normal here, with 9 being the ones ‘selected’ for triple science. I don’t agree with it, id rather it was an option, but like you, we don’t have an option to go anywhere else as all the schools are doing it. It’s because they are teaching triple in the same time as combined. Great for those who need stretched, not so great for those who love science but can’t manage the pace so have to do combined.

I’ve read you’ve looked into it, but another vote for making sure the options are flexible and not restricted re. MFL, humidors and arts. Having this problem at the minute with DD who wants to do 2 MFL and 2 humanities. She could do 9 subjects, she has the ability but she can’t. If it was science then it’s a different matter.

Sixth form/college will usually only care about English, maths, science and the subjects your DC wants to do usually with a baseline of 5 GCSEs plus the subjects you want to continue with.

Universities only care about the best 8 and most care more about the A Levels.

Looking into hours of lesson time between schools, that’s dedication - but to answer your question, yes, more time in the lesson on a subject does mean they get more teaching time and therefore better results. This does take time away from being able offer more subjects. I don’t see this as a bad thing, although it does restrict choices for the more able. It does however, allow the more able to go into more depth and instead of teaching to grade 7 across the board they teach to grade 9 in fewer subjects.

I’d be looking for a school which offers maximum possible time with English and maths as these are really really important. You can’t do anything without these. A school which has sacrificed English and maths for another option might not be doing their pupils any favours later down the line. A school which offers another option with the same level of English and maths is fine.

I don't really know that it makes a huge difference. I started 10 and dropped one. I think the minimum is 5, as you have English + lit, maths, re and science (minimum 1).

Fwiw I work as an LSA in a secondary school and some of my students have dropped subjects which the school officially say are compulsory. Eg the school says everyone has to do a language at gcse, but for some students (especially where English is their second language), it's too much and they are allowed to drop it

I've never known an independent schools allowing languages to be optional

@WombatChocolate sorry. That was a really disjointed comment I made 🤣 I was just musing how much my dd would love to not have to take a language

The thing is, they’re not confined to the ebacc. Therefore they take the view that the kids should do what they are good at and will enjoy and do well in. That might be languages or not.

It is a selective school that is very successful in terms of exam results. Many do choose a language and some don’t. They have great GCSE results and great A Level results and the whole cohort get offers to RG unis, so the lack of GCSE Lana gauge for some isn’t a problem. And this is after studying 3 languages prior to GCSE - so it’s not that the school don’t value languages, it’s just that they make the curriculum very very flexible in terms of what needs to be covered and how many subjects, so each student can be doing what’s best for them. They start with 10 subjects and most end up with those, but some (after discussion with teachers and parents) drop to 9 or also add further maths so end up with 11.

Languages is often the contentious thing in lots of schools. On entry, in scone schools the kids are funnelled into 1 language that they don’t choose. In some places, the able get to do a 2nd but in many places they don’t. Then after that, in most schools the kids are forced to continue with that language they never chose to begin with. Some parents want more languages early on or more choice, and some want to be able to drop languages at GCSE. Those running options probably have more discussions with parents about languages than anything else. Should a language be compulsory for all at GCSE? It’s an interesting question,ensoecially for those who academically struggle and often find languages inaccessible and hugely struggle with them. Is it in all kids’ interests to do one, or is it driven by ebacc statistics and timetabling factors?

Whether your child will love languages and want to do 2 or more at GCSE is hard to know until later. The more flexibility towards individual students and their interests and talents seems good to me….but Inaoore irate schools are constrained with budgets and the tightly defined timetable is often a way to manage budgets and there simply can’t be flexibility.

Oh and I think most independent schools are more flexible about options generally than most state schools. They have the resources to be flexible. It doesn’t mean they don’t value languages or humanities or whatever it is. They usually offer a wider wide of creative subjects too and allow on averag pea higher number of subjects to be taken - so a really broad ir narrower curriculum is possible deoending in the child.

On one level it’s with an eye to league tables and students getting the highest grades possible - doing better in subjects they like and are good at. (Languages are probably the most dropped subjects amongst those that are dropped during the GCSE course) but also that the students themselves end up with a higher grade point average and do better in the subjects they do study, when they aren’t forced into things that don’t suit them. Of course Maths, Eng, Sci are taken. In the school I’m talking about all students do triple science. It is possible to drop one of them along the way and some do, so they end up with 2 separate sciences, but not dual award science. It is a selective school though, so this works well.

I wouldn't look into it in so much detail, tbh. DD2 was at her school since 2008 (now year 11 and has moved school). In that time the school went from a 3 year GCSE programme to 2 year. From 2 week timetable to 1 week. The start/finish times have altered, the reward point system has changed, the number of lessons per week have changed (25 lessons to 30 lessons). The programme they use to do maths homework has changed. The length of breaks has changed.

You can't look at how a school does things now and then look forward to 4 or 5 years time and think it's going to be the same. OFSTED Frameworks change and with it, schools change.

The key thing I would want to know is how do they arrange their setting? Does their timetabling allow for students to move up and down as they develop? DD3's school set all science lessons at the same time for each stream. They teach all science lessons as discrete subjects. All students are taught the same science curriculum until February of year 11, when a decision is made regarding separate Vs combined, and higher Vs lower. By teaching all students in the same stream at the same time, students can easily move up and down sets as appropriate. No student gets to a point where they have ability but can't progress because they haven't been taught the relevant curriculum content. It's the same system for maths.

Thank you so much today everyone for your help answering all the questions I had, even the really mad ones. It’s been really helpful.

Its given me a lot to think about and I now have a better/clearer understanding of things around GCSEs and secondary curriculums. I’ve also been able to think about what is/isn’t important from reading through the comments and answers. This has also given me some food for thought in other areas I need to be concentrating more on and shown where I don’t need to be thinking about things too much.

Its really appreciated and invaluable. Thank you so much.