Teachers, is this behavior normal in your school?

[CheekyBuggersIsPuttingItPolitely]

My DC have attended the same secondary school.

All three have been shocked by the behavior of their peers. Fighting in hallways, smoking in toilets, children walking out of lessons, laughing in the faces of teachers and general disruptive behavior.

My older two have coped well with the disruption, with Dd1 getting great GCSE results, she has however decided to take A Levels elsewhere.

My youngest however is finding it hard, she gets very stressed when people misbehave and is complaining she hasn't actually learnt anything yet in her first weeks at school as the teachers are having to spend the whole lesson disciplining children.

Do you think this is the norm, or are my children at a particularly challenging school?

No, it's not the norm. I've no doubt it happens, but it's really not the norm. Did you choose the school, or didn't you have a choice?

It sounds exactly like the school I went to ( 35 years ago) but on the whole I think behaviour is managed much better now.

It's interesting because I didn't realise at the time, but my memory of school is very different to peers who were in lower sets. My experience was lots of terrible behaviour in corridors and at break, but classrooms mostly calm. Friends in the lower sets saw all that in class too. Could that be the difference for your DC? Maybe they haven't been streamed yet?

No, not first choice, it was third choice school for all three, it is our nearest school, most children in the area go to the next closest school, we were just out of catchment, many children bus in from the nearest city.

My oldest was in top sets, Dd2 isn't, they both report similar behavior. Dd3 is probably the most academically able of the three, did very well in SATs, she says they were streamed today, but that the 'naughty boys' are still in her classes.

Today her entire Spanish lesson was taken up with her teacher and another staff member trying to remove a boy who was twirling on top of a table 🙄Dd3 says they're not mean boys, just very disruptive and don't listen to the teachers.

Some children are just feral and the schools have limited powers to stop them. It’s horrendous for the bright, diligent children who actually want to learn. It was the same when I was at high school - bullied for being clever and wanting to further myself. Appalling really. With hindsight, how dare the disruptive kids have thought their desire to learn fuck all trumped my chance to learn? I’m sure there’ll be someone along soon to call additional needs - and yes - this could be valid to some extent. But as above, some simply don’t want to learn. My tormentors? Dead and/or in prison 25 years on.

My dc are at or attended a good local school in terms of higher than average results and being over subscribed, but behaviour is concerning. They tell me that the higher ability the class is, the worse behaved the students are. Top set English is apparently like a zoo. I've been told about tables being thrown across class rooms and all sorts. My eldest found it very stressful, but worse for her was the blanket management approach of the teachers, as though they were all punished for the behaviour of a few. The daily ritual shouting she had to endure from the teachers was unacceptable.

I really do feel for the teachers too, it's really hard to know what the solution is. I was half joking that maybe rather than streaming on academic ability, they should stream on willingness to learn.

Pupils throwing tables is more unacceptable by far, really.

The school is above average on results.

From many of my teacher friends this is the norm. Behaviour is shocking where I work but our results are fantastic.

I think teachers aren’t to blame if it’s a whole school problem. Some disruption is obviously expected that’s normal, but not what you’ve described. The problem starts at the top, with an ineffective behaviour policy and lack of support from management. With what you’ve described, I say the headteacher is a bit of a jobs worth.

Taught 1993-2014 in inner-city comprehensives. Perfectly normal. And awful.

When you put together a class of children who want to learn, some poor sod has to contain the others. And the teacher will be judged on their results regardless of how unwilling they are to learn or how bad their behaviour is. Bright children can behave badly and yet their teachers are supposed to drag them through nine top GCSEs or face the consequences in their own wages and promotion prospects.

Throwing tables sounds awful!

Examples my DC have given are fire alarms constantly going off, therefore missing lessons whilst they all head outside. My Dc2 came home with a ripped backpack, someone had pulled them over backwards whilst walking along the corridor.

These next two sound ridiculous, but are examples of the low level constant disruption, DC3 said in one lesson today, whilst trying to write, the boy next to her spent the entire lesson making monkey noises and pulling on her arm. Then another boy kept getting up from his desk, sitting on, then farting, on people's books, so they obviously just think themselves highly amusing. My hope is that these children will mature, or realise no-one is finding them funny!

I think my issue with grammar schools is they only cater for the academically more able, I'm not sure Dc2 would have made the grade, yet they want to learn just as much as my other more academic DC.

Top sets also misbehave. Would be the same at a grammar school.

Kids are just numbers. The sooner we change the exam system the better.

Sounds just like the academy I left last year. It was just dreadful, very similar behaviour to all those described here. Lots of low level disruption and lots of high level violent behaviour towards each other and the teachers. Kids wandering around out of lessons setting off fire alarms and being total PITAs.

It's very hard to teach in classes like that especially when you don't have any back up from SLT. They wanted to build relationships with the kids rather than discipline them and the whole thing was like a circus. They need discipline and boundaries and they don't have them at school or at home.

I was so glad to leave! I can't remember kids behaving like that when I was in school, but maybe they did. One or two perhaps, but not whole classes!!

I think it is sadly common. The issues are

1. Ineffective and weak SLT
2. Parental pressure and lack of support from parents.
3. Poor culture of respect. Children and parents have little respect for teachers or really for learning. The idea that you should shut up and listen to the teacher is not really embraced.
4. Difficulty excluding persistently disruptive students.

Grammar schools are the answer for the brightest but competition is fierce so what about the highly motivated, diligent average or low-ability child?
Poor leadership, uncooperative parents and inexperienced teachers can make a real difference to behaviour in a school.

Where does that leave the children who are well behaved and want to learn but are less academic?

Is there any chance to move her? Are there any all girls schools nearby? I was lucky to go to grammar school and had none of this going on. Unfortunately (generally) boys behaviour in school is more challenging.

I think you only need to see the threads on here where a teacher says "it's hard work" and they get shot down by everyone telling them to stop moaning.

We don't have this going on in the school I work in. I would look for other options. Ask to go visit on a normal school day rather than an open evening.

Unfortunately I think there is truth in this. School budgets are so low that the school have got rid of the higher paid more experienced staff and replaced with NQTs, who are lovely, but just don't have the experience. There also isn't the funding for support staff. Other staff members have quit as the head just expects too much of them.

I was praising Dd for her 'positive points' today, her response was she didn't do anything special to get them, she just wasn't misbehaving!

That sounds exactly like my sons school. First year in Scotland in secondary. The schools awful. Older kids bullying younger kids. My son 12, got kicked by a 4 th year pupil on his third day. Class disruptions, vaping, pushing and slapping in corridors, staff not doing anything. A boy tried to strangle my sons friend, a young girl got her new clothes nicked on her second day in PE. A girl getting bullied by other girls in her class, girl got cola poured over her. The list goes on and he only started in August. Lots of ferile kids being dragged up. Utter disgrace